Why You’re Not Ready for PR (Yet): The Systems, Positioning & Truth Most Brands Ignore | Rae Christine
You don’t need PR — you need to get your foundation together first.
In Episode 47 of Season 6, ShySpeaks and Ron sit down with Rae Christine, a 20-year PR veteran and brand architect, to break down one of the biggest misconceptions in the creative space:
people think they need PR… when they’re not even ready for it.
This episode goes beyond branding theory.
It exposes:
- what actually drives revenue in a PR agency
- why most brands are just “shells”
- how positioning vs aesthetics changes everything
- and the uncomfortable truth about readiness
Because visibility doesn’t fix broken brands.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
- Why Most Brands Are Just “Shells” (And People See Through It)
- Brand Positioning vs Brand Aesthetic (The Real Difference)
- The Biggest Branding Mistake: Overcomplicating the Message
- How a PR Agency Actually Generates Revenue
- Why the Framework Is the Real Product
- The Hard Truth: Not Everyone Should Hire PR
- The Role of Integrity in High-Level Services
- How to Protect Your Time as a CEO
- Why Most Creatives Underprice (And Realize Too Late)
- The Hidden Lesson: You Might Not Need PR Yet
Quotable Moments
“If your foundation isn’t real, people see right through it.”
“Sometimes you just have to tell the truth.”
“PR is not a shortcut — it’s an amplifier.”
“If it’s outside scope, say it.”
“You can’t pour from an empty cup.”
“What are they managing if nothing is built yet?”
Connect with MMCB:
- Podcast (Apple): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/minding-my-creative-business-podcast/id1724893043
- Podcast (Spotify): https://open.spotify.com/show/1Uo7amHW0dR2tBd3gMgOV4?si=511ddd99b115418b
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@mindingmycreativebusiness
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mindingmycreativebusiness
- Website: www.mmcbpocast.com
You Have the Creativity. Now Build the Business Around It.
Every creative has a story — but talent alone is not the business. Structure is what turns ideas into income, consistency into growth, and creativity into something sustainable.
That is the work behind the Creative to CEO Challenge. In five days, Ron and Shy will help you clarify your signature offer, price it with confidence, and build a 90-day plan that gives your creative business direction, focus, and momentum.
If this episode reminded you that your creativity deserves more structure, this is your next step.
Join the Creative to CEO Challenge — https://creativetoceochallenge.com
Build with intention. Create with heart. Turn your creativity into a business that lasts.
Transcript
From a young age, I always knew that I wanted to work in sports.
Speaker A:I just always grew in understanding and appreciation for the human storytelling of things.
Speaker B:Self development is one of our key pillars as well as sustainability, number of.
Speaker A:Followers, and vanity metrics that actually don't matter.
Speaker A:I always start with a framework and a foundation because those metrics will catch up once your story is accurate.
Speaker A:Do you know what a brand sentiment score is?
Speaker C:I've never heard that term.
Speaker A:Most people rush for agency representation and that agency or management is not servicing the basic needs.
Speaker A:I collect art paintings.
Speaker A:I've learned to appreciate storytelling in all forms.
Speaker C:Based on you listening to this podcast, you're probably a creative entrepreneur who's ready to stop hustling for clients and start building a business that runs on purpose.
Speaker C:Profit and peace.
Speaker B:If that's you, we want to invite you to join the Creative to CEO Challenge.
Speaker B:A five day live coaching experience designed to help you shift your mindset and develop the habits to turn your creativity into consistent cash flow.
Speaker C:And it's all happening live on Zoom inside a private community of ambitious creative entrepreneurs just like you.
Speaker C:People who are done guessing, done grinding and ready to build with clarity and confidence.
Speaker B:By the end of the challenge, you will have a crystal clear direction on your next 90 days.
Speaker B:A profit plan that fits your lifestyle and the framework to start earning 10k plus months doing what you love without burning out or selling out.
Speaker C:So if that sounds like what you need, then tap the link in the description or scan a QR code if you're watching this on screen.
Speaker C:And do not forget to upgrade to VIP for bonus coaching and behind the scenes Q and A every day of the challenge with me and Shy.
Speaker B:We can't wait to help you unlock CEO mode and the freedom you've been working for.
Speaker B:Now let's get back to that episode.
Speaker C:Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Minding My Creative Business podcast.
Speaker C:The number one podcast for creative entrepreneurs to learn strategy, structure and sustainability and self development.
Speaker C:I am your co host, Ron ironically.
Speaker B:Jr. And I am your co host, Shy Speaks.
Speaker B:And today is going to be one of my favorite episodes.
Speaker B:Y' all know I said every episode.
Speaker B:All of them are going to be my favorite.
Speaker B:This one, I mean, because they just keep just piling on to my favorites list.
Speaker B:Listen, we have the distinct pleasure of introducing, you know, Ms. Ray Christine.
Speaker B:Who is.
Speaker B:Go ahead, tell.
Speaker B:Tell them who she is.
Speaker C:She is the founder and CEO of Ray Christine Agency, which is a PR and brand firm.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Or not.
Speaker C:Sorry, not brand firm.
Speaker C:It's a brand architect.
Speaker C:Yes, let me.
Speaker C:Let Me correct myself.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And you are multi hyphenated.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:And you have something called the Brand Leverage Blueprint.
Speaker A:I do.
Speaker A:A framework.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:We definitely going to talk about that today.
Speaker C:That's how we would introduce you.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker C:How would you introduce yourself?
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:You know, I think this is a perfect time to ask me that because even, shoot, a year ago I might have answered that differently, but now I would say I'm a CEO.
Speaker A:I am a 20 year veteran with experience.
Speaker A:20 Year PR veteran, I should say with experience.
Speaker A:Leading some of the largest brands in the industry.
Speaker A:Between sports and entertainment, I've worked with your favorite athletes, artists, creatives.
Speaker A:But ultimately I'm just a person that really respects the discipline of marketing and the strategy and foundation that goes behind it in order for it to be successful.
Speaker A:And I've learned in my career that so many people breeze past that part and that's when it fails.
Speaker C:Okay, that's, that's what my fault.
Speaker C:I love it.
Speaker C:I love it.
Speaker C:So, you know, as we talk about you, you know, being a, a brand architect, right.
Speaker C:What things are you looking for with clients to be able to architect that brand?
Speaker A:Definitely their story number one.
Speaker A:What is your story?
Speaker A:If I can't discern your story from the way you're sharing yourself with the world, if that's through intentional content or if that's through music, art, I collect art, paintings, all mediums.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So I've learned to appreciate storytelling in all forms.
Speaker A:And if there's no clarity in that, then there's not much that I can architect from.
Speaker A:And anyone that says that they can probably isn't interested in making sure that you yourself are being truly honored in that brand architecture versus just being pushing an idea or a thought or the next hot item on the label list.
Speaker C:I'm glad you said that because now I want to know what's your story?
Speaker C:How did you end up here as the brand architect?
Speaker A:Well, from a young age I always knew that I wanted to work in sports.
Speaker A:I used to grow up watching real sports with Bryant Gumbel with my dad.
Speaker A:Yeah, major callback.
Speaker A:If you know, you know.
Speaker A:And I just always grew in understanding and appreciation for the human storytelling of things.
Speaker A:So I went to college and got my master's in marketing and communications and I've worked for NBA, wnba.
Speaker A:I helped form the brand of Jake from State Farm from the original to the current one that everyone sees.
Speaker A:And after about 20 years working brand and league side, I then transitioned to opening up my agency.
Speaker A:And that really was because of opportunity and necessity.
Speaker A:Opportunity.
Speaker A:I'LL say came from when I went viral as Green Dress girl.
Speaker A:And at the time I did not realize it was going to be the thing that it was at all.
Speaker A:And that was, it was kind of fun being able to like put my own skills to practice for myself.
Speaker A:But at the same time I was going through some challenges with the corporate side of my career and I found myself at a place of having to define what happiness was for me.
Speaker A:And I learned to appreciate the idea of completion.
Speaker A:And I think especially in a creative field, when you're always striving for that next thing, you can feel very unsettled with moving on.
Speaker A:But for me, there was nothing left on the corporate side for me to do.
Speaker A:I completed everything, I'd worked everywhere I wanted to work.
Speaker A:And so the only thing left was the unknown.
Speaker A:And that's where the opportunity came.
Speaker A:So very long winded way of saying opportunity and necessity is what found me in a place of growing and building my own, but doing it in a way that I could help others.
Speaker B:And you said opportunity, but also you was, you were developing yourself along the way because you said you went straight to I got a master's.
Speaker B:You skipped some kind of associates and bachelor's because you were just so I did busy getting the education though.
Speaker A:I did so.
Speaker B:So you develop yourself.
Speaker B:And I say that because self development is one of our key pillars as well as sustainability.
Speaker B:And you kind of just spoke to both of those even as you were talking about how you got into this.
Speaker B:When we say sustainability, we're talking about how can the company sustain, but then also how can you as the CEO sustain.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so now you were talking about being in a career and you can even start losing steam and start burning out even outside of being an entrepreneur.
Speaker B:People like, you know, entrepreneurship, it's not for everybody.
Speaker B:You're gonna burn out, but you can burn out even in the corporate career.
Speaker B:And so you didn't say those terminologies.
Speaker B:What I'm saying is.
Speaker A:But I felt it right there it is.
Speaker B:And so this has become unsustainable for me.
Speaker B:And I had to make a decision on if I'm going to have to struggle for sustainability.
Speaker B:I'd rather struggle over here in the unknown and do something more wild and exciting and define my own terms.
Speaker B:And so I really want to say shout out to you for that, for just embodying those two.
Speaker B:Now let's get into the strategy and the structure.
Speaker B:Come on, let's get into it now.
Speaker B:When it comes to having a company like Ray Christine, an agency, a PR and branding firm.
Speaker B:You talked about how you're focused on the identity first, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What comes next?
Speaker B:Like in.
Speaker B:In your system, I'm sure that there's a framework.
Speaker B:Now that we know that you have your.
Speaker B:I have your story and I know how to identify you, what's next?
Speaker B:Do you just say, how can we get you the biggest payday?
Speaker B:Or do we start working on what to offer as a product service?
Speaker B:Like, what's next for you in your system?
Speaker A:I would say, really, it depends on kind of the service area.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:That the people go into.
Speaker A:But by and large, it's who are you talking to?
Speaker A:Who are you?
Speaker A:Who are we selling to?
Speaker A:Okay, we have your story, but who's your audience?
Speaker A:And not just who are your followers.
Speaker A:Who is your audience?
Speaker A:Who do you need to be speaking to?
Speaker A:Who should you be selling to if you're selling?
Speaker A:Because especially in the creative field, there's so much that can be considered with number of followers and vanity metrics that actually don't matter.
Speaker A:And for me, that's why I always start with a framework and a foundation, because those metrics will catch up once your story is accurate.
Speaker A:And so I would say I would definitely look at what your audience is, who we're speaking to, and then break it down by pillars within that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And pillars can sound like, yes, social media, but that's just messaging across the board.
Speaker A:You could have a pillar for how you speak to people in your newsletter.
Speaker A:You could have a pillar for how you speak to people who are on your YouTube channel.
Speaker A:But it's just a very guided, intentional way of taking nebulous ideas, really large ideas, and making sure that they don't get lost in the sauce.
Speaker A:And so being able to have pillars and knowing how your audience fits within that is really helpful with being able to know what kind of content will resonate or what you can try here.
Speaker A:Or maybe long form for this audience is great and short form for this is better.
Speaker A:But all of those are like ladders.
Speaker A:I'm sorry, steps on a ladder so that we can get to the payday.
Speaker A:Because eventually everybody wants to get paid.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:We all want to get paid for our brilliance, but you can't get there unless you're very intentional along the way.
Speaker C:You mentioned vanity metrics and them not being important.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So if vanity metrics are not what we should look at, because I know the average creative looks at the Valley Metrics, what metrics would you say that you're looking for and why?
Speaker A:Sorry, something stuck in my throat.
Speaker A:I'll ask A clarifying question.
Speaker A:What metrics do I look for when I was a brand rep looking for influencers or creatives to sign and give checks to?
Speaker A:Or what metrics do I look for as a practitioner and a CEO of an agency that helps build up creatives?
Speaker A:Because those are different.
Speaker C:Well, let's do both.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker C:Start with the first one, the talent.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:And then we'll start.
Speaker C:We'll go to the next one for you.
Speaker A:So when I'm.
Speaker A:When I was working brand side and I was signing talent, the number one thing that I would look for is engagement.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like, do you have a high follower number but low engagement?
Speaker A:I know you have bots.
Speaker A:Number two, like, are you actually responsive to your audience?
Speaker A:Because remember, my background is in community management, social community management.
Speaker A:I know what an active real person online that's building community looks like and sounds like and responds like.
Speaker A:And number three is just like, are you active on more than one channel?
Speaker A:How do you manage showing up across different spaces?
Speaker A:Because again, if you're a creative and you want to do like a book tour, you can't just be active on one channel.
Speaker A:You're going to have to show up for a period of time.
Speaker A:So when I was on the brand side, those are the things that I would look for.
Speaker A:Now that I am a CEO and I'm working with creatives to build up their brands, I look, the first thing I ask them for is what's your brand sentiment score?
Speaker A:Do you know what a brand sentiment score is?
Speaker C:I've never heard that term, so please explain.
Speaker C:I will explain it what that is.
Speaker A:First.
Speaker A:Before I go into this, I'm going to share this with you all.
Speaker A:Most people rush for agency representation and I'm talking the big ones.
Speaker A:I'm not going to name them because I think it's unfair to call any specific one out.
Speaker A:But big agency representations and that agency or management is not servicing the basic needs.
Speaker A:So if you have a brand that you're managing, the number one thing you should be doing is managing and monitoring your social sentiment.
Speaker A:Brands on the other side have scores that they give everyone down to a percentage.
Speaker A:25, 30, 60, 75, 80%.
Speaker A:If you're doing well, you have a high.
Speaker A:If you're doing not so well, it's low.
Speaker A:If you're in the middle of a crisis, which nine times out of 10 people are.
Speaker A:When they come to me, I need to know where your brand sentiment score is trending so then I can recommend how we react to it.
Speaker A:And then on top of that, also understanding where your Audience segments are.
Speaker A:Are they US Based overseas?
Speaker A:Right now, the US Political landscape is way different than if you're based overseas.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So just understanding how you're talking to those audience types is.
Speaker A:Is how I would start off.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So then the CEO.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker B:As a person who owns an agency, what metrics?
Speaker B:Okay, there we go.
Speaker A:Oh, that was that one.
Speaker A:The sentiment.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Sentiment.
Speaker B:So, so tell us about.
Speaker B:I really had another question about this sentiment.
Speaker B:I was going to give you a chance to say something.
Speaker A:No, no, no.
Speaker B:But the sentiment.
Speaker B:How do you calculate this score?
Speaker B:Like, I'm just very.
Speaker B:That complex.
Speaker A:That is an algorithm that I do not have access to.
Speaker A:But I will tell you the tools you can find it on.
Speaker A:You can find it on like something like a sprout or a brand watch or.
Speaker A:Those would probably be the two that I would say.
Speaker A:And those are the most industry standard.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:That major brands are using.
Speaker B:Okay, got you, got you.
Speaker B:And you're right.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:That was the CEO when I was just like, I really want to ask this question, but I was trying to move on.
Speaker B:But that's the one I really want to know.
Speaker B:Thank you so much for sharing those tools.
Speaker B:A lot of times that's what people want to know.
Speaker B:Like, I'm getting into this thing.
Speaker B:I want to try to build brands, I want to represent them as pr.
Speaker B:What tools should I really be tapping into?
Speaker B:I mean, I'm just trying to Google something and it's a whole bunch of stuff popping up.
Speaker B:So that was really helpful.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I want to move on to your framework.
Speaker B:We talked about it earlier.
Speaker B:We're going to close that loop in your mind.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So when it comes to your framework, what is this?
Speaker B:What do you take each client through?
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And when you're lit when, when, when she's sharing this, I don't want you to try to duplicate her framework.
Speaker B:I want you to think about what you need to take your clients through, how you work, but ultimately realizing there needs to be a framework.
Speaker B:But I'm also curious that what does it look like in PR and branding?
Speaker B:Because it looks different for somebody, for example, who's a videographer, production company, they're taking their clients through a framework.
Speaker B:Let's talk about it.
Speaker A:Well, I start off with a questionnaire for everyone.
Speaker A:And the questionnaire is anywhere between 15 to 20 questions.
Speaker A:Very deep diving.
Speaker A:None of them are yes, no.
Speaker A:They're all thought provoking.
Speaker A:And for the most part, it gets to the why, who, what, where, when, why.
Speaker A:If you can answer those five questions about Your brand.
Speaker A:You're starting off good, right?
Speaker A:So we answer the who, what, where, when, and why with an extra emphasis on the why.
Speaker A:And then at the end of it, we focus on the when.
Speaker A:Who, what, where, when, why, how.
Speaker A:I'm sorry, how.
Speaker A:We focus on the how and the how is in the action and we come up with an action plan from there.
Speaker A:So the framework is really the questionnaire coupled with an in, in person or video session where I go through the questions with them and kind of nine times out of ten say the same thing back that they answered to me, to them.
Speaker A:And then they're like, no, that's not what I meant.
Speaker A:And I'm like, well, that's what you said, right?
Speaker A:And so getting back to that and then we get down to the the how.
Speaker A:And the how looks different for most people.
Speaker A:You can put it into buckets of like social media, digital web, right?
Speaker A:In person events.
Speaker A:But all of, all of the framework leads up to the how.
Speaker A:And then the how is really where most of the outside world sees the work come in.
Speaker A:And I found with a framework that most people really needed to understand visually how to walk through those steps, steps and see how their answers were being transmuted, if you will, to the next level.
Speaker A:So that's why I do the in person session where I ask them the questions and I kind of let them see how my brain works.
Speaker A:It's kind of basically opening up my brain and letting them peek in and go from there.
Speaker A:And that's the only real way that I can put it.
Speaker A:Because to your point, there is no way to copy it because it's such a special mix of experience that I've lived and learned that I've put together for each client through that framework.
Speaker B:Perfect.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So when it comes to a PR in a branding firm, PR can be positive pr.
Speaker B:It can be, you know, negative pr.
Speaker B:Maybe there's a, a league or a sports brand or, you know, that's in a crisis and they can come there.
Speaker B:But then there are times you're like, nobody's in crisis.
Speaker B:Everything is good.
Speaker B:I just want to be built up.
Speaker B:We just want to really either what they say, rebrand, or really just steer our brand a certain type of way.
Speaker B:And there are two ways of going about that, or at least they're probably more because I'm not a brand architect, but there's brand aesthetics and then there's like what you would say, building a brand for leverage.
Speaker B:I want to talk about like, what's the difference there in the strategy and how do you know, when it's like we really need to focus on the aesthetics of it all your leverage properly, or when are we focusing on branding in such a way that we're scaling something or how would you speak to.
Speaker C:That before you in cost?
Speaker C:I got a cough and get water.
Speaker A:You're from Apple cough too.
Speaker A:Tis the season.
Speaker B:I'm sitting.
Speaker C:Listen, I was over here struggling.
Speaker C:I'm like, I'm gonna stop it.
Speaker A:But you're good if it helps.
Speaker A:I have year round allergies.
Speaker A:Being in Chicago in this dust, really.
Speaker C:In a meeting and you have to.
Speaker A:Cough and you're just like, yes, I.
Speaker C:Already called so many times, I can't do it.
Speaker A:That's why I stop.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Work.
Speaker A:Work from home life is for me.
Speaker A:No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker B:All right, so the last thing I said is, yeah, when you're going into architect, you're getting ready to go into brand architecture for somebody and how you know which lever to pull on branding aesthetics.
Speaker B:Let's go for brand leverage.
Speaker B:Let's go for whatever other brand tools, but what's the difference there and how do you know when to deploy each?
Speaker A:I think the other word that you were looking for is positioning.
Speaker A:Brand positioning versus like brand aesthetic, which would be like a rebrand, a new logo, a brand refresh, if you will.
Speaker A:Brand positioning speaks more to the strategic foundation of the brand itself.
Speaker A:And when I say strategic foundation, that always means the messaging, the inner workings of the brand, who we are, who we are not.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Those are all messaging frameworks that we use in marketing, in PR to help create brand positioning.
Speaker A:Brand aesthetics are things that you see on the surface, like brand colors or logo or things like that.
Speaker A:A great example would be like when Walmart redid their newest brand logo and everybody made jokes about it because it was very simple.
Speaker A:But at its core, Walmart didn't have to do much because it was just an aesthetic upgrade really, so that it showed up across digital better.
Speaker A:That was.
Speaker A:That was it the thing that they didn't say.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:When a brand comes through repositioning, usually that means that they have either a legacy that they want to preserve, a legacy that they want to move away from, or they're going into new territory and that requires foundational work.
Speaker A:That's more so where brands come to me and we go through the questionnaire, we go through the, well, why are you doing this?
Speaker A:What is the reasoning?
Speaker A:And we ask those questions because when you're building a brand's positioning and in their foundation, you want to make sure that it is Brick by brick, laid with the things that.
Speaker B:With the.
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:Because if not, then you get what we call like a shell or a skeleton of a brand.
Speaker A:And people see right through that.
Speaker A:Today's consumer is so much smarter and so much more critical and has much more access than they did 10, 15 years ago.
Speaker A:So you have to really make sure that those things stay.
Speaker A:Stay true.
Speaker A:So the difference would be aesthetic and positioning, for sure.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And so, and, and I like that way you were saying how.
Speaker B:An example of when to use it.
Speaker B:It's like you're trying to reposition yourself or you're trying to refresh something.
Speaker B:You're trying to.
Speaker B:So you know exactly when to do it.
Speaker B:I hope you picked it up.
Speaker B:She made it just sound so smooth because she's a marketing and communications person.
Speaker B:But anyway, I just want to say I like the way.
Speaker B:I love the way you answer that question.
Speaker B:You got something?
Speaker C:Well, no, I'm just saying she said, either you're trying to move towards something, away from something.
Speaker C:It just made me think of Aunt Jemima, which is.
Speaker C:I mean, they.
Speaker C:There's no longer Aunt Jemimama.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It's the.
Speaker A:The Pearl Millings.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, I still buy it.
Speaker C:Right, right.
Speaker C:So, but that, that was a part of it.
Speaker C:They wanted to move away from their racist history and said, okay, cool, we're going to get a new logo now and we're going to change the name.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And yeah, that's.
Speaker C:That spoke to me.
Speaker C:So when you said that, that kind of.
Speaker A:Yeah, you want to know, I'll give you a controversial kind of a brand that did this.
Speaker A:Controversially, I guess Target.
Speaker A:Target, with their dei.
Speaker A:Yeah, I remember that they did not actually cancel dei.
Speaker A:They repositioned it in their messaging so that they weren't fined by the government.
Speaker A:But they did a terrible job of making sure that the foundation for the repositioning was set.
Speaker A:They leaned too much on this being an aesthetic change and being able to put some signage or keep signage up and say, hey, the brands are still in store.
Speaker A:But again, today's consumer is so much more critical, so much more intelligent.
Speaker A:And so they looked at the press releases, they looked at what the executives were saying behind it and saw that those bricks were empty and it was a shell.
Speaker A:And that's why you have the confusion that you have today.
Speaker C:So as a case study, right.
Speaker C:You mentioned Target.
Speaker C:What should they have done or how would you would have advised them to have handled that situation?
Speaker C:You said they got a lot of negative press.
Speaker C:They boycotted.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It was some things that went On.
Speaker C:So if it wasn't what we thought it was, if it was a repositioning.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:How should they have.
Speaker B:Possibly they hire Ray Christine Agency.
Speaker A:That's the answer.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And then you would have given them some sauce, but you can give them all of it right now.
Speaker B:But just like one or two peaks.
Speaker A:Honestly, I would have just told them to tell the truth.
Speaker A:I think they sounded too complicated.
Speaker A:They should have just said we are, we are readjusting.
Speaker A:Not, you know, all the language that they use.
Speaker B:It's a language thing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Sometimes you just got to say the thing.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Was that kiss?
Speaker C:Keep it simple.
Speaker A:Yeah, Keep it simple.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Silly, stupid, whatever you prefer.
Speaker B:Okay, so you're not just an entrepreneur.
Speaker B:You are a creative entrepreneur, which means that your world of business works differently, especially when it comes to funding.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Maybe you're bootstrapping, you know, injecting your own money into your passion or you're searching for investors who all too often overlook your unique vision.
Speaker B:And yeah, you've heard a little bit about business credit, but you don't know exactly where to get started.
Speaker B:Well, listen, we've got your back.
Speaker B:We've partnered with Credit Savant to help creative entrepreneurs just like you get access to up to $150,000 in business credit.
Speaker B:That's right, $150,000 to scale your creative based business into the enterprise that you know that it can be.
Speaker B:And trust me, they're not just going to throw information at you and send you on your way.
Speaker B:They're going to walk hand in hand with you to help you get funded.
Speaker B:Are you ready to take the next step?
Speaker B:Well, head over to Credit Savant IO that's Credit Savant IO and tell them MMCB sent you.
Speaker B:When it comes to being a PR firm, being a brand architectural firm, those things can be.
Speaker B:So it can get broad.
Speaker B:Like with regard to what all needs to be covered under here.
Speaker B:How do you avoid like scope creep so that you, like, you know, some people out here, they're doing PR firms and they're like trying to be custom and boutique, but you have to, there's some kind of fine balance.
Speaker B:And I would imagine with your experience in a corporate and an entrepreneurial world that you figured it out kind of.
Speaker B:So let's talk about it.
Speaker A:Not completely, but I have a very, I, I have very strong boundaries and I think communicating in the upfront when anybody comes to me is very important.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like I always say, what is your budget?
Speaker A:That's the first question out my mouth.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker A:You can ask me my rate all day I'm going to ask what your budget is because let's get to the point.
Speaker A:And then number two, I set very fair and realistic expectations.
Speaker A:And again that is because I have the 20 years of experience working corporate and I know what these different things come with.
Speaker A:That being said, I also do make sure that I'm not over pricing to a point where like I'm not going to charge Walmart the same prices that I would someone you know like that's a small creative creative that's starting out right.
Speaker A:You have to be appropriate with who the client is.
Speaker A:But in terms of copes or scopes creep, I just, you just say the thing.
Speaker A:If that's outside of your scope, it's outside your scope.
Speaker B:I'm happy you just brought a price there.
Speaker B:I want to kind of shift it here and have some like mind in my creative business fun.
Speaker B:Can you.
Speaker B:Do you recall the time where you know you're like I've get gotten paid in corporate and I started consulting a bit, getting some of those checks.
Speaker B:But when you finally got a check on your own terms that didn't come from like a corporate job that you had worked 40 hours a week or you know like when you finally got a check that was like wait, what?
Speaker B:I made this on my.
Speaker B:We did this.
Speaker B:What was that amount and what was that experience like?
Speaker A:I gotta think about that probably.
Speaker B:Oh, and I'm gonna get.
Speaker B:While you give, while you think I'm gonna tell you an example.
Speaker B:This.
Speaker B:We asked this guy, he's a photographer, he was like, he was just shooting for free because he was trying to learn everything, the nooks and crannies about the, the, the lighting, the this, you know all the terminology.
Speaker B:He can say them all, I don't know them all but he was like okay.
Speaker B:So somebody asked him hey can you come and shoot this party?
Speaker B:I'll see you with the camera.
Speaker B:And he was like yeah.
Speaker B:They was like we'll give you like $50.
Speaker B:He was like heck yeah.
Speaker B:Now mind you he get, he's getting like ten thousand dollar contracts and fifteen thousand dollar contracts now and stuff like yeah, that wasn't even a big amount but it was the moment it blew his mind that like oh wait, where.
Speaker A:You could get paid for this?
Speaker B:I'm gonna get paid for this.
Speaker B:So it.
Speaker A:Can I give two examples?
Speaker A:Yes, they'll be quick, I promise.
Speaker A:The first one was everybody asked me how much did you get paid for Green Dress Girl?
Speaker A:I don't think I ever said it.
Speaker A:I made $3,700 off that video, $3,700 from yapping online.
Speaker A:And it was at that moment I said, so if I'm getting this, then the people with 20 million followers are really, huh?
Speaker A:So if I.
Speaker A:If I commit to this, maybe I can make some right.
Speaker A:So that was the first one.
Speaker A:And then I think for me, the second was when I got my check from.
Speaker A:When I got my check from the NBA Retired Players association.
Speaker A:And I'll tell you why.
Speaker A:Because they were the first major client that I signed, and I was still technically working for a corporate job.
Speaker A:I was head of marketing and PR for the women's pro soccer team in Chicago.
Speaker B:Hold on.
Speaker B:First of all, slight flitz.
Speaker B:Let's be clear.
Speaker B:You know, NBA, you know, we just don't, you know, women's team, you know, we just, you know, just gonna roll right on past it.
Speaker B:I just want to say that's some pretty cool stuff.
Speaker B:You know, you're marketing at the highest level because these brands have to put out stuff all the time, all the time, by the time.
Speaker B:So you really have to be sharp.
Speaker A:No sleep.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm sorry to interrupt your story because I was fanning out.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker B:About women's sports and about the NBA.
Speaker B:Back to your message.
Speaker A:I appreciate that.
Speaker A:Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker A:So one of my.
Speaker A:My very first client, NBA Retired Players association, and I was still working head of marketing for the pro women's soccer team in Chicago.
Speaker A:And honestly, the check I got from my client, the NBA Retired Players association, was the same price that I got or the same amount that I got from my, like, salary check.
Speaker A:And I said, well, in one position, I'm really the boss.
Speaker A:In the other one, in my head, I'm the boss.
Speaker A:So you know what?
Speaker A:Maybe I could give this a try.
Speaker A:And that was the year that I founded my agency.
Speaker A:And within three years, I was out of corporate and working for myself full time.
Speaker B:It's always a moment like, so shout out to that.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker B:Wait a minute.
Speaker B:Is this the same amount?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And the thing was, I told them the price.
Speaker A:I probably should have said more, too.
Speaker A:I told them the price, and they didn't blat.
Speaker A:They didn't bat my accent.
Speaker A:Wait, I'm not right.
Speaker A:I'm not asking.
Speaker C:We all have had that experience, right?
Speaker C:Where it's like, we tell them a price and we think in our mind, this is high, right?
Speaker C:We tell them, they don't bat it now, like, okay, cool.
Speaker C:And we're like, wait a minute.
Speaker A:I will never forget what they said back.
Speaker A:Rachel.
Speaker A:I can be amenable to that.
Speaker A:I use that line to this day.
Speaker A:I can be amenable to that because.
Speaker B:I think what it is, is like, especially if you've done your creative talent for non profit or for profit company, you have gotten used to trading.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:40 To 50 hours a week in exchange for this amount.
Speaker B:And then you realize I just worked on this for about five to six days or two to three hours.
Speaker B:And I was able to get this.
Speaker B:Wait a minute.
Speaker A:And I'm still clocking in at another job.
Speaker A:I said, y' all got me, huh?
Speaker B:So now this time in for this, the same amount of money.
Speaker A:Listen, two days a week at the other.
Speaker A:I said, this is crazy.
Speaker C:It makes sense.
Speaker A:Make it.
Speaker A:And I did.
Speaker A:And I left and I, I worked for myself.
Speaker C:That's good to hear.
Speaker C:So I did, you know, as we're filming this episode, I just recently transitioned out of my, out of my full time.
Speaker A:Oh, did you?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So congratulations.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker C:So just hearing stories like that is, is good to hear.
Speaker A:So it's terrifying.
Speaker A:But you will make it.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, definitely, for sure.
Speaker B:He stepped out into the wild.
Speaker B:Stepped walking in the wild.
Speaker B:Listen, over.
Speaker A:Yeah, it wasn't a choice, but we did it, you know, and hey, you know something?
Speaker B:It's gonna be great,.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker A:Like I say, y' all lucky my boyfriend isn't here because he'd be over there too.
Speaker A:Like, no, send her back.
Speaker B:Because it's kind of work.
Speaker B:Because then it's like you like, we are generating revenue, but then we also have expenses.
Speaker B:All of the tools that we have.
Speaker B:Some of the tools.
Speaker B:You mentioned some of this.
Speaker B:You don't want the free version of everything.
Speaker B:You want to get the real subscription of stuff.
Speaker B:Then you have all the, the structure side of things, like some of the legal ramifications.
Speaker B:You have to put contracts in place.
Speaker B:You have to have.
Speaker A:I had to sue two clients last year.
Speaker B:You know, all of these things.
Speaker C:Yeah, let's talk about that.
Speaker C:Because, I mean, we, let's talk about it.
Speaker C:As creative entrepreneurs, a lot of what we do is service based and we have contracts and things in place.
Speaker C:And I don't think we've ever talked to any of the guests that have said that they've had to.
Speaker B:We've talked, we've talked about legal.
Speaker B:We actually had a whole conversation about it.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, I talked about getting his trademarks and all that kind of.
Speaker B:He was on the positive side of it.
Speaker B:And other people bring it up as like, so that they don't have to go down that route.
Speaker B:But sometimes it happens and so does that happen because of a breach of contract?
Speaker B:Or is it a misunderstanding?
Speaker B:Or is it just like, no, we have an understanding.
Speaker B:You just haven't paid.
Speaker B:And so now the invoices, like, is it like, what do you, from your experience, what do you see is the most common causes of why we have to sue?
Speaker B:From a creative based business perspective, I'll.
Speaker A:Do it from two perspectives.
Speaker A:One perspective being the service provider.
Speaker A:I think because in most cases the contracts were in such excitement and a rush to get the signature in the check in hand that we don't take the extra step to make sure that there are protections that are in place.
Speaker A:And you know, I've shared openly about my journey.
Speaker A:I was diagnosed with epilepsy last year.
Speaker A:I shared with you.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:And that has impacted my ability at times to do work.
Speaker A:So I had to make sure that I had a force majeure included.
Speaker A:Force, major faith force majeure.
Speaker A:You get it?
Speaker A:Google it.
Speaker A:Included in my contracts and you should have that either way.
Speaker A:But it was as a result of me being unable to work because of a hospitalization stay.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so I think from a service provider aspect, making sure that you do take the time to make sure that you have those protective clauses in place in addition to the scope of the contract.
Speaker A:And then for the clients, like, they just don't.
Speaker A:At least especially in PR and strategy, they think PR and they think they're going to be on GMA tomorrow and they, they aren't.
Speaker A:And, and I will say in one case in particular, I'm not going to name names, of course, or anything, but like, the most disappointing part I think of when things like that happen is like you do all this work, you build up all of the story and the why and this identity for them, and then they tell you, we don't see anything from it, we don't see any value and don't pay you, and then still end up using your stuff anyway down the line.
Speaker A:It's like, okay, well, see, now you're playing in my face.
Speaker B:Now you're playing in my face.
Speaker B:And that's what we're not gonna do.
Speaker A:You're playing in my face.
Speaker A:And like, you know, and, and when you work, especially when IP is so important to your livelihood, you cannot play about those things because you be.
Speaker A:Because if you play about it once, then you set precedence.
Speaker A:And in legal terms, precedence is important.
Speaker A:You never want to set a precedence for somebody to play with you.
Speaker A:My, my daddy and my brother are lawyers.
Speaker B:You never want to set up precedents for somebody to play with you, that'll, that'll work outside of business.
Speaker B:Let's, let's just not set precedence.
Speaker A:That's how I live my life.
Speaker A:I'm from Chicago.
Speaker B:I see, I see.
Speaker B:We see.
Speaker B:Let's not play.
Speaker B:Oh man, that is cool.
Speaker B:Okay, so let's talk about your brand level because I gotta shift it because, you know, we can get a little serious on that.
Speaker B:Yeah, I want to talk about your brand leverage package.
Speaker B:Do you have a package of some sort like that?
Speaker B:Okay, so let's talk about it.
Speaker B:I want to hear about it.
Speaker B:And if somebody is watching, let's say they're listening to you.
Speaker B:Like I want a PR agency, but like I.
Speaker B:More than that, I want to work with, I need to get this part together first, you know, so what if somebody wants to get that brand leverage package?
Speaker B:What happens there?
Speaker B:Let's talk about the nuts and bolts of what happens.
Speaker A:So my Brand leverage blueprint was created really for the person who is curious about setting a foundation and maybe doesn't have a full annual budget to put towards an agency or who maybe just needs a jump start and can manage it on their own.
Speaker A:And it's a two hour intensive session beforehand.
Speaker A:I send you a questionnaire and you fill it out.
Speaker A:And like I said, the questionnaire is 15 to 20 questions long, long form.
Speaker A:So it takes me on my end about four to five hours to get through and really sort through everything.
Speaker A:And then in the two hours that we have together, it's really just like our one on one time.
Speaker A:Like you would have a CMO or a chief Strategy officer which, whichever you're needing, right?
Speaker A:And at the end of it you come out with an actual physical, well, digital copy of a brand leverage blueprint that is specific to you, your needs, this next step.
Speaker A:And it also comes with the how, like I talked about, of how to put that strategy into action.
Speaker A:Because where I see most people complain or most of their complaints working with agencies are if I see one more strategy, I'm gonna like lose it.
Speaker A:And I get it because it's like, what am I gonna do with all the strategy?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And so that's why I really make sure to have the how.
Speaker A:This is how it should be showing up in your day to day.
Speaker A:So you know, if you're tracking right or if we need to readjust.
Speaker A:And that's really what it was built for, so that people can work with me on a basis that is meeting them where they're at.
Speaker A:Because you know, I also have limited capacity from time to time with clients that I'M able to take on retainers.
Speaker A:And ultimately I just am hoping that it's something that people can use as a reference point to come back to so that they can continue to leverage the brand that they've built in a way that continues to build income for them, build visibility for them, and also clarity in your positioning so that people aren't confused on who you are.
Speaker B:You know what I really like about that is that you are offering the same thing that they would have, they would get if they were working.
Speaker B:Well, say, I mean, obviously.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:If they would have worked with you for the long haul, your company, your agent, your team and all of that, of course they would give more.
Speaker B:Of course there's a lot that goes into PR and pitching and all of that.
Speaker B:I'm sure they would get all of that.
Speaker B:But still with this, this starter, this blueprint they get.
Speaker B:So it's not like you gave them, you created some other watered down version.
Speaker B:You're still getting the same initial mindset.
Speaker B:Yeah, I can give you something to work with and start with, maybe have another team or somebody.
Speaker B:Not a team, but maybe a friend or yourself or whomever.
Speaker B:I love that you made that access for either.
Speaker B:For, for people in their business, no matter where they are, if they have just this amount of money.
Speaker B: ow much is that package as of: Speaker A:5,000.
Speaker A:5,000 It is 5,000.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And I will say everyone, whether they're a retainer client or not, of mine, they all start through the brand leverage blueprint.
Speaker A:So to your point, you're getting the exact same experience from me across the board.
Speaker A:It's just different criteria that, you know, different clients of mine reach at whatever point for me to take them on as retainer because we are boutique and we do make sure that each one of our clients needs are being completely met before we take anyone else on.
Speaker A:But yeah, the brand leverage blueprint experience, $5,000.
Speaker A:And I mean, I've had people come back to me now more than two years later and they're like, I'm still using the blueprint that you set out for me.
Speaker A:It's great.
Speaker A:I'm making revenue, I'm going on podcasts.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And these are the clients that have gone through it.
Speaker C:Man, I love that because it's like you have your framework regardless of what point you are, whether you are just going to get the blueprint itself or if I'm doing more hands on with you, if I'm doing more done with you or done for you.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker C:So it's like, okay, this can be Something where it's diy, Right.
Speaker C:Or we can do.
Speaker C:Done with or done for.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker C:At the end of the day though, it's the same framework.
Speaker C:I'm just delivering a different one.
Speaker A:Exactly, exactly.
Speaker B:So we know that that becomes a revenue generating product or, you know, product for you.
Speaker B:The, the, that blueprint.
Speaker B:And then of course the ongoing services is a revenue generating, you know, product for you.
Speaker B:But what is, like, what would you say is, what's the system behind, like keeping a good flow of revenue for a PR and brand agency?
Speaker B:Because it's not just that blueprint and then just we're going to get clients.
Speaker B:It's like, no, we're going after.
Speaker B:There are some PR clients that are reaching out to us.
Speaker B:There are some people we're reaching out to.
Speaker B:Like, what's the, what's the system?
Speaker B:What's the strategy behind what brings in the most revenue for Ray Christine Agency.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:I think the system is definitely just number one, the framework.
Speaker A:Because PR is, can be a very, and I use the word nebulous because I think that speaks to it the best.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's an idea that you know about, but you can't really conceptualize fully unless you've seen it done, unless you're on the other side of the output of pr.
Speaker A:So the framework, so that no matter what it, if, if somebody comes into my system and they get zero placements, which will never happen, but if they were to get zero placements, they would still walk away knowing how to speak to an audience, to create their own visibility, to grow their own audience.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And build their own platform.
Speaker A:So that's number one.
Speaker A:And then number two, being very realistic, like if someone comes to me and they're like, hey, I want to, I, I say gma, right?
Speaker A:But like if they want to say, I want to be on Good Morning America tomorrow, and I'm like, well, what, what are you doing?
Speaker A:And they're like, well, you know, I'm me.
Speaker A:And I said, well, that's not realistic.
Speaker A:And, and I'm, and I'm okay with telling someone like, you're not at a place where you need PR yet either, because I think PR has become kind of a buzzword for people.
Speaker A:And again, because I honor the discipline and the science of marketing and pr, I would just never do that.
Speaker B:Integrity.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I love it.
Speaker B:I love it.
Speaker C:So how do you.
Speaker C:I don't want to say Gatekeep, right, But there's protective factors that I'm sure that you have in place to protect your, your time and energy, even your, your Health, Right?
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker C:So what are some of those protective factors that you have in place as a CEO?
Speaker A:I don't take meetings on Mondays most Fridays, if I can help it, but definitely not Mondays, at least not meetings that require deep thinking.
Speaker A:I just know that Mondays are for me, and I need to ease into the week.
Speaker A:I have a questionnaire on my consultation form that you have to fill out, and there's different levels that people have to click, and depending on the level that you click, I will or will not approve a consultation with me.
Speaker A:I have other referral sources that I'll refer.
Speaker A:Refer people to if they're just not quite at the level yet of, you know, like, for me, for a retainer, at least.
Speaker A:Brand leverage blueprint.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:I'm open for anyone.
Speaker A:And then I think, most importantly, it's just learning how to say no.
Speaker A:And it's the hardest thing that I've had to learn because I love to help people.
Speaker A:But when you are in a seat of responsibility and visibility, like I am, the requests don't slow down.
Speaker A:If anything, they speed up.
Speaker A:And so now it's more.
Speaker A:So me identifying opportunities and areas for me to be more intentional with how I pour in versus being open for everyone and, you know, emptying my own cup.
Speaker A:Because you can't pour into a cup if your cup is empty.
Speaker B:That's good.
Speaker B:No meetings on Mondays.
Speaker B:I'm g. Actually, go ahead and go right now.
Speaker B:I'm g. To go.
Speaker A:No meetings.
Speaker A:If you're my clients, you didn't see that.
Speaker B:They're like, okay, but just this one Monday.
Speaker B:Okay, this one Monday.
Speaker A:My calendar is always booked on Mondays.
Speaker B:They're like, oh, she's always full.
Speaker B:No, that's.
Speaker B:They have to respect the fact that you have off days as well, so you can have time to refresh.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And regain that creative juice that they're trying to extract.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so, man, I. I have enjoyed, like, talking to you about PR and branding and marketing.
Speaker B:I can tell that there's just a wealth of information there.
Speaker B:Just more than what we've even been able to crack the surface on.
Speaker B:Sometimes we say, like, oh, I want to have you back, but, like, I'm gonna have to figure out a way to get you back.
Speaker A:You know, you can always come to Dallas or Detroit.
Speaker B:Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker B:So then, because I want to know, like, I'm sure that there's more that goes into, like, with a PR firm, like, what team members should I get first?
Speaker B:What's my next hire?
Speaker B:What's my next hire?
Speaker B:What would I Do differently so that I can get to a more sustainable rhythm.
Speaker B:You know, how many pitches are should I be doing if I'm a PR firm and how many if I'm a brand architect?
Speaker B:What metric should I be looking for to know that I did a good job?
Speaker B:You know, there's so many other nuts and bolts that go into the structure and the systems behind a PR and brand architectural firm.
Speaker B:And so I know, like, we.
Speaker B:But you gave us so much already and it was so rich.
Speaker B:So thank you so much for coming on and hanging out with us at the MMCB Media team, you know, because we got, I say team because, you know, we got the co host, we also got the producer over there, shout.
Speaker A:Out to the team.
Speaker A:No, this has been so wonderful.
Speaker A:And you know, I really enjoy being able to speak about this and I'm glad you all are doing this work because as the job market continues to evolve, I think more and more talented people are going to find themselves in a place of needing to either pivot or reposition or just figure it out.
Speaker A:And so like, these types of tools are so helpful.
Speaker B:And you know, I, I extracted something from the meeting as well that we'll be able to utilize when we're working with clients.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So our students, our mentees, so to speak, because obviously they have the free podcast, they can tap in, listen to your stories.
Speaker B:Oh, she has a six figure brand.
Speaker B:Oh, he has a seven figure brand.
Speaker B:Oh, this person has an eight figure brand.
Speaker B:I'm learning from them.
Speaker B:But then they may even tap in with us in one of the challenge that we've created.
Speaker B:And when we're talking to them, one of the things I heard you say as it relates to strategy is people think that they're ready for pr, but they're not.
Speaker B:And I didn't want to go into it, but I feel like we could kind of do some help in helping them understand like, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:To.
Speaker B:Even when it comes to vision, like your vision for this right now, does it need to include, are you at the phase where you need to include this level of pr?
Speaker B:What exactly does that mean?
Speaker B:And can you really afford to retain, retain someone without trying to say, well, you didn't really do anything.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:For the amount of money that you invested, we did a, we did quite a lot.
Speaker B:You just need other things.
Speaker B:You still need this, you still need that, you said.
Speaker B:So I, I feel like there's some things that we can take and we can put into what we're sharing with other creative entrepreneurs as they were figuring it out.
Speaker B:I know for, for example, being a.
Speaker B:A music artist, people like, I want a manager.
Speaker B:And sometimes you're just not ready for a manager.
Speaker B:You don't need a manager yet.
Speaker B:Manage what?
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And so it's the same thing.
Speaker A:You don't even stop.
Speaker A:You don't even show up to the.
Speaker B:Studio regularly, regularly when you don't have a regular release schedule, anything like that.
Speaker B:So manage.
Speaker B:Like, we don't even have your brand together.
Speaker B:Like, it's a lot of things, so kind of get some things together before you start hiring on different services.
Speaker B:And so I think that's something that we can incorporate in.
Speaker B:But, man, this is.
Speaker B:This has been really cool.
Speaker B:This is really cool.
Speaker B:All right, so I thank you, but I also want to thank you.
Speaker B:I want to thank you, the listener, the viewer, for tuning in to the mind in my creative business podcast.
Speaker B:If you're listening all the way to this end point, I know that you're serious about minding your creative business.
Speaker B:So shout out to you.
Speaker B:And while I'm giving you kudos, go ahead, tap.
Speaker B:Yep, tap.
Speaker B:Like, go ahead and do that right now.
Speaker B:Go ahead and.
Speaker B:Yeah, hit that subscribe button.
Speaker B:Don't just keep watching the episodes.
Speaker B:Actually drop a comment and let us know how you feel about what you learned today.
Speaker B:Should we have a part two?
Speaker B:I mean, do you want to know more?
Speaker B:I mean, what, like, give us some feedback and run.
Speaker B:You got something?
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:I also want to invite you all to participate in the Creative to CEO five day challenge.
Speaker C:This five day challenge is where Shine I walk you through transitioning and transforming from creative exclusively to Creative CEO.
Speaker C:We help you develop your 90 day CEO plan on the page.
Speaker C:You develop your signature offer and then put some structure, some systems around that signature offer so that you can monetize to 10k plus months.
Speaker C:So join that link in bio or link in description and be a part of the next challenge.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Now I want to ask you to do something else.
Speaker B:No, it does not.
Speaker B:It's not a challenge.
Speaker B:It's just something that we do when we end each episode.
Speaker B:You heard, heard me speak.
Speaker B:You've heard Ron speak, you've heard Ray speak, you've heard all of us speak.
Speaker B:But we want you to speak right?
Speaker B:Because we believe that affirmations are important.
Speaker B:And so we, in each episode, we say the MMCB mantra.
Speaker B:So we're gonna all say it together.
Speaker B:In fact, I want you to repeat after me, like, literally say it out loud.
Speaker B:One more, people.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:You ready?
Speaker B:Everybody ready?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:All it takes.
Speaker B:All it takes is intention.
Speaker A:Is intention.
Speaker B:Consistency.
Speaker A:Consistency.
Speaker B:And laser focus.
Speaker A:And laser focus.
Speaker B:To mind my creative business.
Speaker A:To mind my creative business.
Speaker B:And on that note, we out.
