Graphic Designer or Brand Strategist? The Difference That's Costing You Clients, with Devin Wilmott-Johnson

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:00:00

Why should they stick with you versus copying the blueprint and go doing it themselves?

Like you have to create a system.

There's a lot of silent Ls I've taken, but they have preserved my name and that was more important to me than the money in my account.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:00:12

Love it.

A lot of times us as creators, we try to do everything because we can do a lot of things.

So we try to do it all at once.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:00:18

Getting over the fear of like partnering with somebody is going to help you increase your bottom line and your roi.

ShySpeaks: 00:00:24

They need to have a stick to it about themselves.

A lot of times that's not there if you don't get that validation, especially in this soc society in the time that we live, it's like I'm looking forward to look a certain way and if it didn't happen that way, then I'm moving on.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:00:38

You should literally want them to be more successful than you ever were if you were that mentor.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:00:50

Based on you listening to this podcast, you're probably a creative entrepreneur who's ready to stop hustling for clients and start building a business that runs on purpose, profit and peace.

ShySpeaks: 00:01:01

If that's you, we want to invite you to join the Creative to CEO challenge.

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Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:01:15

It is all happening live on Zoom inside a private community of ambitious creative entrepreneurs just like you.

People who are done guessing, done grinding and ready to build with clarity and confidence.

ShySpeaks: 00:01:28

By the end of the challenge, you will have a crystal clear direction on your next 90 days.

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Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:01:42

So if that sounds like what you need then tap the link in the description or scan a QR code if you're watching this on screen.

And do not forget to upgrade to VIP for bonus coaching and behind the scenes Q and A every day of the challenge with me and Shy, we.

ShySpeaks: 00:01:58

Can't wait to help you unlock CEO mode and the freedom you've been looking for.

Now let's get back to the episode.

What's up and welcome to the Mind and My Creative Business Podcast.

The number one podcast for creative entrepreneurs to learn strategy, structure and self development all in one place.

Not just learning, you can gain it, you can get with it.

And when we say self development we also talking about sustainability.

Listen this is is the spot and I am your co host Shy Speaks.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:02:25

And I'm your Co host Ron Ironically junior.

And we have a phenomenal guest here with us today.

ShySpeaks: 00:02:34

When we say phenomenal, we do mean phenomenal.

Okay?

So listen, I'm so excited.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:02:40

I know you are.

ShySpeaks: 00:02:40

I'm excited because this is probably going.

I mean, so this particular guest and I, we have, like, this, this is us, you know, it's like automatic.

And so I, I, I, I, I'm too excited to introduce.

Let me let you do the honors.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:02:53

Okay.

We have with us brand strategist, event producer, keynote speaker, event host, as well as the founder of DWJ Co and the girls Trip Society, we have the one and only Ms. Devin Wilmot Johnson.

Right, right.

So that's how we would introduce you.

How would Devin introduce herself?

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:03:20

Yes.

Well, thank you guys so much, first and foremost, for having me on.

I'm super excited.

Hey, guys.

For those who are watching.

Yes.

I mean, like you said, how I introduced myself, Devin Beaumont Johnson.

I'm a mother.

I'm a wife.

I am a woman of faith.

Big faith, Heavy on, big G. And everything you said was great.

I mean, I won a couple awards and stuff like that.

And, you know, God has been good.

31 Years old.

95, Baby.

For those who are watching.

And you know, I come from a unique background.

I grew up in the middle of Iowa and came from a Caribbean household.

My dad's from the Bahamas originally, so grew up in this Caribbean household in the middle of Iowa.

So it started off weird already, and now I made it all the way down to Texas.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:04:06

Yes.

ShySpeaks: 00:04:08

I love it.

I love it.

Come on, you gotta embrace your own weird.

You know what I mean?

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:04:13

It's weird, man.

ShySpeaks: 00:04:14

Also, you, like, won a couple awards.

Then she threw in that she's 31.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:04:18

She did.

ShySpeaks: 00:04:19

Because with the level of things that she's accomplished and all that she is, you wouldn't think that maybe that age may not match because one of the awards starts with a P. Can you.

Capital P. What is it?

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:04:31

The Presidential Lifetime Achievement Award.

Oh, yes, you said.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:04:35

Hold on.

ShySpeaks: 00:04:36

Wait a minute.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:04:36

The Presidential Lifetime achievement award at 32.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:04:40

Oh, I'm 31.

I got it at 29.

ShySpeaks: 00:04:43

Huh.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:04:44

That's.

Wow.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:04:46

Y' all see what I'm saying?

This is philanthropic initiatives in the world, right?

ShySpeaks: 00:04:51

This is the kind of carrying on we are about to do today.

So that's why I say I am excited.

I love it.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:04:58

Yes, yes.

I'm excited to dive right in.

I'm a creative at heart too, so I know shy.

You kind of know.

I'm, like, big on, like, music and the Arts and all of those things.

So I love, love, love talking to creatives.

So I'm excited about this.

ShySpeaks: 00:05:11

Yes.

Yes.

Okay.

So let's get in there.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:05:14

Yeah.

So you wear a lot of hats, right?

We just kind of went through all of these things, right?

How are you able to juggle all those things?

Like, is it.

Yeah, like, let me know how you able.

Cause all of us are creatives, right?

Our audience is creatives and we're multifaceted.

We do multi things, right?

We're all hyphenated in some way, shape or fashion.

But it seems like you're doing this hyphenating thing and you're doing it at a high level.

Like, how is that?

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:05:44

Yeah, So I was.

It's crazy.

Cause I was just having this conversation with a good friend like last week in regards to, like, okay, how did I wake up and end up here?

And I'm honestly going to attribute everything to the most high.

Because the answer is, if you ask me to regurgitate the formula on how I'm here today, I don't know.

But one thing I do know is just being obedient to the assignment that he has had for me in those seasons.

And when I say being obedient, it's being obedient in excellence, right?

And I feel like, you know, when God gives you a window or a door or he closes the door, being.

Having the discernment that is needed to either walk through the door he opens or walk out of the door that he closes is very important to kind of become this successful multi hyphenate entrepreneur, creative, all of those things, right?

Because I think sometimes we stay.

Sorry, might edit that out, but Flint.

But I think sometimes we might stay in places too long, you know, and that's.

How do you truly become multi hyphenated and like, you know, just multifaceted in general.

Like, that's being able to, you know, pick up a skill, have excellence in that skill, have that tool in your tool belt.

Okay, let's grab the next tool, you know, So I would say that's kind of how I got here is just kind of walking through those doors.

When I graduated, I. I started off at Iowa State University.

But before that, I've always been an entrepreneur.

I've always been a creative business owner.

My parents are both like entrepreneurial.

They both have successful businesses.

So I just kind of fell into it leaving high school.

I had my own little like, reselling J situation.

I had a lemonade stand doing P L sheets at the age of 12, you know, so going into college, I was like, okay, well, even though I'm like the editor, one of the editors for the newspaper, and I'm like the president of multi, like a bunch of organizations in college and taking like 18 credits, for some reason I was still bored.

So I was able to.

And I was like, let's generate some income, right?

So I started my first business in college that scaled to six figures within six months.

And that's how when I first really got into like business ownership, being an entrepreneur.

And then, I don't know, you want me to go through the whole story, but it kind of started there.

ShySpeaks: 00:08:03

It's just like the hats just came.

They just was.

Right, they were just.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:08:07

Yeah, yeah.

And I think your question was like, how do I balance it all?

I truly don't believe that there is such thing as work life balance.

I kind of did a talk about this a few months ago.

Now, everybody's entitled to their own, like, opinion because everybody has a different lived experience.

But I would say that for me, I don't believe in work life balance.

I just believe that there is one life and we need to live it well.

And I think that everything that encompasses your day to day is just part of that one life that you have to live well.

So that's going to encompass, you know, your work as well as your personal life, your family and all of those things.

So in some seasons I noticed that, hey, this is the season for me to take a step back, sit down a little bit from a professional standpoint, right?

Like, I may be not as.

Take as like maybe not taking on as many contracts or, you know, kind of just scaling back and focusing more on like my daughters and my, and my husband and my family, you know, and then some seasons, you know, the nanny is in full effect, you know, and I'm not, you know, gonna.

Don't you know what I'm saying?

Some, there's some, there's social media they be mad at when people say this about it.

Sometimes a nanny is what it's gonna be.

A nanny is what it's gonna be.

And sometimes it's nanny season.

And I make sure that, you know, my daughters are at their schedule, activities and appointments and all those things, but I'm more in management mode, you know, it's just, it's ebbs and flows of life.

And I think that being able to know what is the priority of each season, there's a reason for that priority.

And you just have to use wisdom and discernment and also not overwork yourself or Overload yourself in one or the other, if that makes sense.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:09:43

No, that definitely makes sense.

And I'm glad you identified the seasons aspect.

Right, because it doesn't seem like you're doing all these things at once, though.

I know a lot of times, us as creators, we try to do everything because we can do a lot of things, so we're trying to do it all at once.

But you said, okay, I have the wisdom and discernment to know, okay, I'm do this task in this season, and when that season's over, I'm going to close that and move on to the next, opposed to trying to hold on to it.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:10:07

Exactly.

One thing my mom, like, always said to me that stuck with me is, you can have it all, but not all at once.

ShySpeaks: 00:10:15

Mmm.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:10:15

I like that.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:10:16

You truly can have it all, but not all at once.

And I think that as creatives, we naturally feel like we just need to have it all, all the time.

And that's how we get into depression and anxiety and feeling like, okay, what I'm doing is not enough, and feeling like what I'm doing is not working or successful.

Like, I used to actually be a recording artist, and I, like, did music and all these things, and I was supposed to be the next fiance, but God had a plan, so.

But I would say, like, you know, when I dropped my first project, like, you know, I got some traction, but it was like, I had a whole vision of what the traction was going to be.

You know what I mean?

And I feel like as creatives, when we drop a project or, you know, you drop an art piece or you drop something, and, you know, you don't get that validation that you were seeking for.

You have to ask yourself the question, like, well, why did I do this?

You know, it's not for the validation from others.

It's from the validation for yourself and also from God, you know, and you just have to keep going.

You have to.

I think creatives are not consistent.

I think that that's the biggest thing, stopping creatives from being successful.

It, like, from a holistic standpoint, it's consistency.

You start a podcast, you know, if you start, like, literally, you start a podcast, and me, like, I started a podcast, I dropped two episodes, shy or no, I went through hell and back, and.

But I could have just been like, throw it in the towel, throw it away, whatever.

It's not working.

No, I know that having a podcast is on my, you know, vision board.

It will happen.

So you just keep going through the ebbs and flows and you make it happen.

I think that's the biggest thing as creatives.

Like, just because you drop a project and it wasn't successful, okay, what are.

ShySpeaks: 00:11:51

You going to do?

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:11:52

So, no, you need to go work on the next project.

You got to stay consistent.

A lot of these overnight successes, who are creatives, people think it's overnight.

It's not overnight.

If you look at what they've been doing for the past couple of years, like, there is something that has made them, you know, successful in that.

I think Michael, the Michael Jackson movie, was a good example because, like, Jafar, people are like, oh, my God, this is like a overnight success.

And I'm like, okay, yes, he was a golfer.

He wanted to be golf.

He didn't want to be an actor, like, all of these things.

But, like, did you listen to the prep preparation that went into him actually being able to execute that role?

Like, he was consistent.

He could have dropped out at any time.

Like, this wasn't for me.

You know, that took years of studying and all of these things.

ShySpeaks: 00:12:37

So I think, like, one of the things you just said is, you know, being consistent as it relates to creatives, period.

Not necessarily even creatives entrepreneurs, but just creatives being consistent.

But what you were really talking about was stick to itiveness.

Like, they need to have a stick to it about themselves.

A lot of times that's not there.

If.

If you don't get that validation, especially in this society in the time that we live, it's like, I'm looking forward to look a certain way, and if it doesn't happen that way, then I'm moving on.

Which there is a time to move on, but it can't be.

It can't come out of that place to where it's like, ultimately you're just not really consistent in anything.

You don't stick to anything.

And so.

And that was what I gained out of that.

But from the question, which was about all the hats that you wear, you talked about your collegiate time and how you wore.

You were the president or a leader on multiple organizations on campus.

How many organizations were you leading at that time?

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:13:38

I think by the time I graduated, I was in leadership roles of at least five different organizations.

I know I started and founded two that still are at the university to this day.

Like, they're still going.

I founded, like, a magazine that's on campus.

I mean, they release an issue every.

Every year.

I started a, like, the Caribbean Student Alliance.

I was one of the founding members of that.

That's still going.

So.

Yeah.

ShySpeaks: 00:14:03

And this is how is it okay.

And okay.

And then the reason why I ask you that is because you talked about doing a lot, but you talked about doing it well.

And in fact, the word you used is doing it with excellence.

Y.

So people will do a lot of things, but they're not doing a lot of things excellently.

Like, give it, wrap your mind around it, get the full skill about it, be excellent at it, and then you can move on.

So you.

You just moving on.

You ain't even excellent at it.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:14:28

That's what creatives do.

Literally.

It's like I pick up a skill and it's like, I don't perfect it or make.

Get it to an excellent point.

They don't set a KPI for themselves.

ShySpeaks: 00:14:37

Right.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:14:38

Or know what the word KPI even stands for.

Like, set a KPI for yourself.

What is the key performance and indicator for this skill?

I'm like, learning that would indicate that now I'm excellent at it and I can move to the next thing.

ShySpeaks: 00:14:51

Right?

Right.

You know what I hear is capacity.

Like, you have, because you also talked about 18 hours, right.

Which is six classes.

The full time is four.

So you took two extra classes.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:15:07

Dang.

I did, yeah.

I thought 18 was full.

That's probably why I was like, I ended up with a minor and I didn't even like, try this.

That makes sense, like why I had a minor then.

ShySpeaks: 00:15:17

Yeah.

So you're taking two extra classes, so you have a capacity now.

Let me ask you a question.

This is going to be a question I believe is what helps creative, creative entrepreneurs really tap into that CEO realm?

Because if you're going from the creative to the creative CEO, you're going to have to have an increase in capacity for you.

Is capacity something that you've always had, or is there something that you do that helps you continue to increase and expand the capacity?

So.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:15:47

I would say from a tactical standpoint, the way that I'm able to increase capacity is outsourcing.

Like, because.

And when I say outsourcing, it's like duplicating myself into other people that I'm hiring on to, like, different projects.

Right.

Establishing and building teams that have a sense of loyalty to your brand and what you're doing in your company or organization.

Why should they stick with you versus copying the blueprint and go doing it themselves?

Like, you have to create a system as a business owner that would allow people to think, okay, I should stick with this and help grow this thing.

Like, there's a.

And we'll get into branding.

But There's a.

That's part of branding, making a psychological belief that this is where somebody should be at and spend their time.

So that's one from, like, a emotional and, like, spiritual standpoint, because that's a huge part of capacity.

Like, like I said, I'm a woman of faith.

You know, Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior.

So for me, I'm praying every day, like, lord, just, like, increase my capacity, like, because I can't do it on my own.

Like, you know, it says in the Bible that, you know, in my weakness, like, he is strong.

So.

Because that says that I know that even if I don't physically have the capacity, like, he is creating the capacity for me from an emotional and spiritual standpoint and also going before me right in.

In circumstances and in things, that's going to allow a certain level of grace over my life to where even if I mess up, like, people may or may not know, right?

But I'll say from a tactical business owner standpoint, definitely being able to build a team, I mean, that's going to be very important and be able to build a brand that becomes a household name, like, that is going to be also important to increase your capacity.

You can't do it alone.

A lot of creatives, like, I don't know what it is, but creatives, like, it's like, I need to do everything alone and I need to teach nobody about anything that I know because they're gonna just steal it.

Like, that's the mindset or the mentality.

And I'm like, why do people think that just because you train somebody or, you know, duplicate yourselves in them, that ultimately it's gonna equal, like, them backstabbing you?

And also, you should never even, you know, train people under you if you don't think that eventually they're gonna use those skill sets outside of you.

That would be selfish of you to even think.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:18:10

Yeah, you know, I like what you said in regards to duplicating yourself, right?

So I'm assuming that you may have some kind of framework in how you develop that person or train that person to not only develop the skills that they need, but also develop that ownership of, oh, we're doing this, or this is our thing, to where they don't just take the skill up and leave, but they stay.

Is there a framework?

Like, how do you go about developing those people?

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:18:42

So I would say that I develop a framework for each role that I need.

When it comes to building a team or outsourcing a certain service, definitely having that is going to be important and what that framework looks like.

I mean, it could literally be a word document.

Just, hey, this is how you perform in this role, right?

Like, this is the service standard for my business.

And handing that to them as a training guide and, you know, you're physically working with them on producing the product at the level that your clients are used to.

So I would say, yes, there's definitely a framework that you put in place.

I think that's another thing for creatives to make sure that they're doing is like really writing down each process that they're using for every service that they're providing now.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:19:29

And let me say what.

What's your.

So when it comes to you specifically, right, for.

To get people to buy in, like, what.

What are you specifically doing to get them to buy in?

Because, I mean, look at, we can have the framework and I can go and I can teach you and train you these things.

But when they're like, nah, I'm rocking with Devin, I'm rocking with DWJ and Cole, I'm like, I'm here.

ShySpeaks: 00:19:48

Or.

Or even more so, not even what you do for you, how do you teach your clients when you come in on a brand strategy level and you said it's important to be able to keep.

Get people to buy into the psychological value of something.

How do you get people to have that?

Like, here's it, here's the sop, here's the service standard.

But like, how do you get people to like, really fully embrace that from a psychological perspective?

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:20:11

Yeah, I would say from a. I'll take it from two angles, like one, clients and then two, like, building your team.

So, like, from a client standpoint, people do business.

People that they, like, know and trust.

Right.

So if you can build a platform for your organization, your business, where you have a good name for yourself.

My dad always said that you have two things in life that you can lose and never get back.

That is your virginity and your name.

I've already lost one because, you know, I'm a mother, so the only thing I have left is my name.

Right?

And because I value having a good name for myself, I treat people how I would want to be treated.

And I do business in an ethical way.

And sometimes that means taking silent Ls where people don't know, just to make sure that you're appeasing, you know, the narrative.

Like, and I think people are not sometimes okay with taking silent Ls.

There's a lot of silent Ls I've taken, but they've they have preserved my name and that was more important to me than the money in my account.

ShySpeaks: 00:21:12

Love it.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:21:13

And I think that's very important.

Right?

So having a good name is going to in turn make clients want to work with you.

So if I say, you know, if I, if somebody says to Shai, oh, you should really work with Devin in regards to like branding your festival, like in that person is a credible person, she's saying that to shy, like automatically I'm number one referral, right?

So like having that referral network is very important as well.

But that comes from having a good name, right?

And providing a good service and a good product and also providing results, actual tangible results.

And I think creatives, when it comes to having sometimes like their business or organization, that's where setting KPIs comes into play.

Do you have a framework set in place to be able to accurately know what results you are bringing to your clients versus just here's a pretty graphic or here's just a pretty video or here's just, you know, something pretty, like, what have you actually done that has resulted in roi?

You have to think deeply about that and be able to communicate that.

Now, when it comes to building a.

ShySpeaks: 00:22:17

Team,.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:22:19

If you are doing, if you are successful in doing what I just said, then they want to learn how to do what you just did.

So inevitably they're going to want to work with you.

There's going to be some form of loyalty or rapport established until they get to a point where either, okay, it's time for them to go off on their own or they become some form of leadership, like in your organization.

Like, there's like, that's literally two ways they can go.

So you as a business owner need to know, like, is this somebody who could ride with me to the end?

They have some form of leadership role, eventually maybe some sort of equity in it.

Are you okay with expanding your company in that, that, that way?

You have to know that first, right?

And then number two, you have to know, okay, well, again, they might get to a point where they, God calls them to start their own thing.

And you can't feel some type of way, like, you can't.

You just can't.

It's selfish.

Don't ever feel some type of way if somebody learns something from you and then takes it and starts their own.

Why?

Because success is nothing without a successor.

Success means nothing without a success.

So why would you feel some type of way, right?

So if somebody.

So with that being said, that's what would make People want to work with you and stay with your team because you have to know, okay, this person is either going, either I'm going to become a mentor for this person.

And success is nothing without a successor.

So they're either going to become a successor or they're going, and my name is.

When they're success more successful than me, you should want them to be more successful than you.

ShySpeaks: 00:23:49

Right.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:23:49

Like you should literally want them to be more successful than you ever were if you were their mentor.

Otherwise you have failed being a mentor.

ShySpeaks: 00:23:57

That's it.

That's all.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:23:58

So that's either one or.

ShySpeaks: 00:23:59

Yeah, so more so than so.

And I like the, the approaches that you.

The two responses that you gave is either knowing from the get go, how do I get people to buy into this?

They're buying into being a part of this company.

Not from a client perspective, but from an internal team.

They're buying into it because they know the path for themselves.

They're buying into it.

They're going to rock with you.

And eventually you're going to build them up to the point where they can kind of go do an aspect of their vision based on some of the things that they learn from you, or you're building them up to a point where they get to have.

They get to be a leader.

And they know this the whole time.

They're aware they're doing their job.

They're maybe there six months, six years.

Right.

But they know the whole time that this is building me up towards this direction.

And so they're going to be loyal to that.

Because you're, you, you're basically giving them what they want.

Right.

While they're working on what you need them, work on within this brand.

I'm giving you either a path towards leadership, I'm giving you a path towards ownership on your own.

If you do leadership here in this company, that still may wind up being ownership.

We may turn it into equity, we may turn into so forth.

So.

And that, that's.

I like those two responses.

Was there deeper that you wanted?

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:25:07

No, I'm just saying that she just kind of the conversation we were having last night at dinner with, with our producer Shaq, we were talking about, she, she mentioned that success was not successful piece.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:25:18

Right.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:25:18

So that just kind of took me back to that conversation where it's like, I.

That's my first time hearing it phrase like that.

Right.

So I love that.

And I'm definitely going to steal that and I'll, I'll give you, you know, royalties.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:25:28

Yeah, no, I sold Dr. Cheryl Axton Jackson.

So see, you give credit where credit is due.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:25:35

Yeah, Yeah, I love it.

ShySpeaks: 00:25:36

I love it.

That's true.

Okay, so now that we talked about a little.

A bit about how you do that with the clients, let's.

Let's pull back a bit and talk about being a brand strategist.

Somebody's watching this, and they.

They're like, I like branding.

You know, I do branding for people.

And maybe right now they create graphic and aesthetic logos and things like that.

What's the difference in them being a graphic designer and creating those types of elements and then being a brand strategist?

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:26:13

So I'm glad that you said that in a way where it identifies a difference.

I think right now a lot of, like, graphic designers are calling themselves, like, brand strategists, right?

And the way to become a brand strategist is not being able to just, like, create pretty designs, because that's.

That's just one piece of it.

Like, branding is everything.

Branding is the strategy that drives your marketing.

It drives your pr, it drives your design, it drives your commercial production, your media.

It drives everything.

It's the nucleus.

What is branding?

Branding is literally the.

In layman's terms, the.

ShySpeaks: 00:26:52

The.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:26:52

The essence of who you are as a company, as an organization, as a brand or a personal brand.

Like, it's like your character, right?

It's your voice, it's your messaging, it's your tone, it's your morals, it's your values, it's your ethics, it's your mission, it's your vision.

It's all of these things, right?

And so how do you take that, encompass it, and then communicate that and market it?

That's where marketing comes in, right?

Market it to the masses, to where now it leads into conversion.

And how do you so.

And then.

So I would say branding, as far as the strategy should always be like, first before you, like, hire and work with, like, marketing services.

Marketing agencies, if they don't do brand strategy, right, or going into advertising or pr, like, right now, where you live in a climate where you'll see a lot of, like, advertising agencies, PR agencies, brand marketing agencies, like, say that they can do branding and brand strategy, right?

And they may or may not.

So a lot of these creative agencies are kind of like doing all the things in one, which makes sense, like, to scale, right?

But again, if somebody's offering you, like, marketing services but not providing you with strategies, example, case in point, you have a lot of people online who are offering, like, funnels, like, hey, I'll build your funnels.

I'll build your.

Your.

Your advertising strategies, your lead gen, and all of that.

I mean, none of that is going to work if you do not have a brand strategy first.

And when it comes to making like, your logo, your.

Your colors, your typography, when it comes to what are your brand patterns, what are your sizing standards, how do you create all of that on one brand board?

ShySpeaks: 00:28:39

Right.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:28:40

It's called a brand guide, essentially, to where.

Now you can take that brand guide and no matter who you work with, they can, they can read it and know, okay, this is the nucleus of everything.

And we take that and then, you know, create campaigns from it.

So to your question, branding is just the nucleus.

Like graphic design is one piece.

Build a website.

Building a website is another piece.

Building ads is another piece.

PR is another piece.

So branding is like where you start is the foundation.

And it's kind of like this overseer of all of these things.

ShySpeaks: 00:29:17

Come on.

Overseer.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:29:18

It's like the overseer.

It's like the watchmen of all of them.

ShySpeaks: 00:29:21

Right, Exactly.

It has to filter through the.

And that.

And it's true, because most of the time we'll be like, no people.

Like when we talk about influencers and all that kind of stuff.

You mentioned that you work with some of them, you work with some beauty brands, you work with all these things.

Let's say somebody comes in and they get a deal, a partnership deal, a sponsorship, an endorsement, however you want to put it, if it.

If they go out and act in a way that does not reflect well on the brand, you know, oh, man, you're not representing the brand well, because the brand is the overseer.

Or what happens to this company?

Oh, you put out that email.

Let's say you got some copyright and person who says, I want to help you with the communications, I'll send out the ebux, and that person who's over your brand will be like, that doesn't work well with the brand.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:30:07

Exactly.

ShySpeaks: 00:30:07

It literally is the.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:30:09

It's the overseer that is like the messaging, the voice.

So a lot of people, a lot of organizations and companies, they just be having their company.

Organization without a strategy.

ShySpeaks: 00:30:18

Yeah.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:30:19

So to be able to.

If you're a graphic designer and you want to become a brand strategist.

Yes.

There's courses you can take, which are like online courses I've taken and, you know, all of those things, or you can go to school for it and all that.

But like, really, you just have to innately be like a strategist.

A lot of Great brand strategists come from the background that I come from, which is operations.

Like I come from an operations background.

I come from scaling sales.

So a lot of great brand strategies actually come from like operations, sales.

But they have like that creative piece of it.

ShySpeaks: 00:30:50

So.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:30:53

You can't negate the operations and sales knowledge and education.

You need to be able to be a really good brand strategist.

ShySpeaks: 00:31:02

It's like a merger between they had those skills, the sales and the operations and all that, but they have this creative piece and that now puts them into the strategic.

And they're also a thinker.

They're a thinker, they see opportunity and so forth and so on.

So basically that's why people say we do branding and brand strategy.

What you're basically saying is pay attention to that.

They may come in and do the branding for you, but they noticed that they separated from brand strategy because they're just going to give you, we'll put a branding on this particular funder.

But they didn't go in and give you like the strategy behind how this will appeal to your target market, how it stays true to your ethos.

You're missing your all of that.

That's that strategy.

Okay, so you want to know the.

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Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:32:44

Okay, so, but can I say this real quick too?

I'm gonna say this to help, to help y'.

ShySpeaks: 00:32:49

All.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:32:50

Is your graphic designer a true brand strategist?

The way you're gonna know that is if they give you a brand guide, they give you your colors, your fonts, your logo.

If they cannot explain to you why they used this color, they cannot explain to you why your logo looks like this.

Why did they use this crest, for example, or a symbol?

They cannot explain to you why these fonts were selected or why this pattern was selected.

They're not a brand strategist.

They are at best an art director or graphic designer.

ShySpeaks: 00:33:25

At best.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:33:26

At best.

I'm saying at best.

No, I said director.

I put the title.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:33:30

You did.

ShySpeaks: 00:33:31

We did chuckle.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:33:32

You.

ShySpeaks: 00:33:32

You didn't say anything wrong.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:33:34

Nothing wrong at all.

Nothing wrong at all.

ShySpeaks: 00:33:36

It was so right.

He just, we looked at like.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:33:38

But think deeply about what I just said.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:33:40

Like, that's good to know because a lot of like you said, people are titling themselves in appropriately.

Right?

ShySpeaks: 00:33:47

Right.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:33:48

So for you to be able to like, no, like, this is what if they're saying that they're.

This, this is what they need to do.

And if they're not doing that and providing that they're not what they say they are.

So that's good.

Like, that's a good thing.

So.

ShySpeaks: 00:33:59

Yeah.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:34:00

Thank you.

ShySpeaks: 00:34:01

Thank you.

I appreciate that as well.

I. I also want to ask you a question as it relates to you.

Say you had an operations background and you are a creative entrepreneur.

Like you.

You.

Okay, so you are the brand strategies that somebody contracted in, right?

You then.

Because you know what they need brand strategy wise, you know, they need direction.

They need all of this.

You probably will go hire a graphic designer to come in and work with you to kind of bring this thing to part.

So now you got.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:34:27

You.

ShySpeaks: 00:34:28

You have a graphic designer on your team.

You have ever.

Whoever else on your team.

You got all this going on.

You're running DWJ and company, right?

Your brand strategies, you're doing all the things.

You're also.

You have the girls trip society.

And you also are now being sought out as a speaker and as a host.

What is your operational structure look like for you to stay like, keep the business side together?

Do you.

Because it's so easy to, like, yeah, it's so easy to provide operation for others.

But then it's like, now I have to do this for myself.

What is the operational structure?

What does that look like for you?

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:35:09

Yeah.

And then, you know, within our.

I cry.

Within our, within our agency, we also are like fractional.

So like, we offer fractional COO services.

We offer fractional CMO services.

Like right now we have a heavy fractional CMO contract.

Right.

And so basically within the agency itself, the great news is, like, it's not just me.

to all the way to, you know,: 1099

I'm, I'm really big on Building teams.

And I've done that for companies and organizations in the past, and I'm doing it for myself as well.

So I think that's the biggest thing.

Now I have a boutique agency, and that's intentional because I don't want to, you know, get this huge brick and mortar and, like, have 100 people working for it and X, Y, and Z.

Like, that's not the goal.

The goal right now would be to serve who we can serve within our capacity and serve them well and make impact through the projects that we're working on.

So we have a boutique agency by choice.

And so with that being said, to answer your question, how do we, like, keep the operations, like, for Girls Trip Society, that's like a whole different team than DWJ and company.

Like, I don't cross.

I think that's one thing that helps is, like, I'm not crossing my teams.

So whoever's on the teams for the.

For each one, they're able to focus on that specific thing, and I'm able to just provide oversight, like my business, both of them.

Because, you know, Girls Trip Society, we also have our nonprofit, Project Takeoff Incorporated.

So those two work really together.

So we have a nonprofit.

We have a llc.

We have another LLC over here.

So each one of these entities has a different team on it, some overseeing them, and I think that that is really helpful to keep it operation.

So that's how I do it.

ShySpeaks: 00:37:10

Right?

Let's.

Let's not let all our food touch on the plate.

Right?

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:37:14

That's important too.

ShySpeaks: 00:37:15

Oh, my God.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:37:16

I made that mistake.

That.

That one doesn't help.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:37:19

So with you working with, you know, these different, you know, companies, organizations, big, small, whatever the case may be, when it comes to things that are, like, similar, like, what are some of the things, like, regardless of the size or regardless of the brand or company or industry, what are some of the similarities?

Where you see.

Where it's like, oh, that's.

That's a constant gap that I'm seeing that me and my company is coming in and having to feel for them.

ShySpeaks: 00:37:46

You're saying, like, when you say all the things.

I want to clarify that.

When you're saying she's so working with.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:37:51

So they're hiring you to come in and be a brand strategist.

Right?

So, okay, they're.

They're hiring you to come in.

Like I said, they may have some.

Some aspects and elements, like you said, the logos and things like that, but there's no cohesiveness or whatever the case may be.

ShySpeaks: 00:38:02

So, no, no I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

I just want to clarify.

Okay.

Not.

You don't have to answer the question.

I was saying.

You were saying she's working with these influencers and all these themes.

So I was saying.

Clarifying what you mean by that when you're saying influencers.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:38:16

Small businesses.

Yes.

ShySpeaks: 00:38:18

Franchises, beauty, brand.

That's all I was trying to clarify.

So she'll be like, with all the things.

Sometimes we're so used to talking like this, it's just like, you know, we do all the things.

But I just want to make sure she would have proper context.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:38:30

That's what I was like.

ShySpeaks: 00:38:30

So are you saying like.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:38:31

Yeah.

So you work.

Whether it's franchise, influencer, Corporation.

Right.

So, you know, once again, the different industries that.

Because you work with multiple industries, you're not just limited to one.

So when you're, you know, what are some of those?

Like, okay, I've seen it.

No matter what industry, no matter what, if it's an influence or whatever, I'm seeing this constant thing that I'm having to come in and fill that gap with.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:38:53

So I would say I've worked with personal brands in the past.

We don't work with a lot of personal brands right now just based off of what people are willing to invest, like to work with our agency, like starting contracts.

The starting contracts is like 20, 25,000, like, like to do something of substance, like, you know what I mean?

Which actually is not like from a, like a boutique.

That's the cool part about being a boutique agency because like a very large agency, like, what we would do 25, 000 for, like, they may do, you know, 45, 000 or, you know, so that's the benefit.

But we're able to do that equivalent output, if that makes sense.

Because I'm keeping my, my bottom line lean.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:39:30

Yeah.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:39:31

And so we do a lot of like, yeah.

Franchises we worked in.

In, you know, small to medium businesses.

Small to medium businesses, meaning a lot of like, like probably grossing 1 million or more in their business.

That's like our clientele.

And then we.

Right now we're doing a lot of recent work in like, development, development strategy, marketing strategy for, you know, like communities and cities and things of that nature.

So we're doing a lot of that and so some civic work and then.

And then, you know, we have a history in like health, beauty, real estate, finance.

So that's kind of like where we, where we live.

And then the question is like the gap.

ShySpeaks: 00:40:16

So stakes that you see, you see that they make, no matter where they fall.

Is there something.

Yeah, especially with, like, Brandon or, like,.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:40:25

I would say, not being able to communicate the story effectively of what they're trying to do.

Like, I feel like that is the biggest problem that we come in and solve, because although we can create the assets for you, like the digital marketing assets or, you know, create your funnels and all the random stuff that falls within branding and marketing things.

Like, I think the strategy is the biggest thing that we come in and help with because it's like, a lot of business owners that we have worked with have been able to gross, like I said, a million or more in their business.

Like, I have, like, clients, a lot of clients.

Like, they have grossed, like, again, a million or more in their business, and they're stuck.

Like, they're at a ceiling because it's like they don't know what.

What do I do next?

Like, so that's the problem that we're coming in and solving because we have to, like, rethink and re.

Innovate.

Kind of what app.

Apple did, like, in the early: 2000

Like, we come in and create that think differently campaign for their company to kind of give that jump.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:41:35

Okay, okay.

No, no, I like that.

I like that.

So helping them to.

To tell their story.

And I get it because a lot of times, you know, they're doing the thing, but how do we communicate that we're doing the things?

How do we communicate that we're doing the things and the things are impactful.

How do we.

You know what I'm saying?

So I love that.

So helping them tell their story.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:41:53

And so I would say to any creative who's watching this, like, if you are a photographer, if you're a videographer, if you are a graphic designer, brand strategist, marketing, pr, any of these, like, if you can help your client communicate their story effectively, you'll have a lifelong client.

Because a lot of photographers, videographers is like, if you hire a photographer, videographer, it's like, oh, I'm coming in.

Let me just shoot a gig.

Boom, boom, boom.

That's where photographers and videographers get messed up in their business dealings.

And they get at like, like a stalling point in their business and in a ceiling.

Because it's like, you're not offer.

If you're not offering anything to me other than like, taking a pretty picture is how you take the picture.

Like, it's how you help me tell my audience the story that I'm trying to communicate that's going to generate an ROI in sales.

You can't just come in and shoot a video.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:42:47

Yeah.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:42:47

Like there has to be a thought behind how that video there's be like actually if you are a videographer and somebody has hired you, if you have not storyboarded your project, you are not a video, you are not a videographer.

Like you just know how to operate a camera and put it on the computer and do some cool editing.

Like that's literally it.

And I know that's harsh.

Some people are.

But no, I'm just saying, like, no, your goal would then to be.

Your goal as a videographer would then to become.

Your goal as a videographer would then to be able to become like a cinematographer or you know, think bigger.

Like, can you get hired on movie campaigns?

All that.

ShySpeaks: 00:43:27

You can't even.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:43:28

I can't hire you on a campaign to shoot a movie if you don't know how to tell a story.

It starts now with your clients.

Is as small as shooting a 30 second ad that's going to go on social media.

How do you communicate that effectively?

You know, if you're a photographer and all you do for editing is literally just like there's this, oh my God, there's this trend right now.

Photographers, I'm gonna say this and I would go, no, go to the next question.

People started ask like clients got smart.

So they started asking for like, you know, raw dumps.

Very smart.

ShySpeaks: 00:43:58

Right?

I asked for raw dumps.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:43:59

I don't.

You don't work with my agency unless you're gonna dump the raw.

Because at this point you're not useful to me because I need that to create more content.

Right, so you're going to be compensated accordingly that you're dumping the raws.

Right.

But now photographers have gotten lazy where it's just like, okay, well clients are used to the raw dump anyway.

So I'm just not even going to edit photos anymore.

I'm just gonna like take photos and dump, you know, and clients are noticing.

So then you see a decline in like actually hiring photographers to take professional photography because there's been a, a laziness with like even editing lately because they're like, oh well, are they using AI to do it and all this stuff?

And I'm like, this is a whole nother podcast.

But I think photographers and videographers, man, like we gotta do some classes or something for business.

Because I think like people think like that industry is about to die.

ShySpeaks: 00:44:53

Right.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:44:54

And it just needs to be revived.

And we need to be able to, as videographers and photographers, communicate the value effectively.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:45:01

I love to communicate the value effectively.

Because they don't know, right?

The customer kind of doesn't know.

They just know, okay, I want photos.

But it's like if you, if I can communicate the value that I'm adding, right?

Yeah, I'm taking your photo.

But it's so much more than that.

And like, like you said, I think they, you, you can save that industry that appears to be dying.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:45:20

If you're a photographer, I would say this, I'm done with it.

I thought it's really obvious.

But if you are a photographer and you are hired from a business to take photo, I'm gonna say it again.

If you're a photographer and you are hired from a business or personal brand or anybody to take photos and you do not know how to like pose individuals.

You do not know how to like make up a set to where the photo is going to be perfect.

You don't know how to like light correctly to achieve the result that the client is looking for.

You are not a photographer either.

That should, that will get these gigs that you're looking for, these high paying gigs.

You're at best, you'll get hired 250 an hour.

So with that being said, how do we increase the value to our clients?

And that's how you're going to be able to do that and communicate that effectively.

I hope I'm not offending anybody, but I'm just saying, like, we hire photographers and videographers all the time and like, you have to be able to.

So if you don't know how to do that, then somebody on your team, it should be in your invoice, embedded.

You should be hiring somebody who can do that for you.

ShySpeaks: 00:46:27

Right.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:46:27

You see what I'm saying?

Because a client can go to Best Buy and buy a camera and figure out how to shoot it.

ShySpeaks: 00:46:31

Yeah, yeah.

Yes.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:46:33

I mean, seriously.

And they're doing it.

I'm telling you, my clients are doing it.

ShySpeaks: 00:46:37

People are.

No, seriously, they're literally doing it.

And I know, and I want to say this for you because I know you're like, I hope this doesn't sound harsh.

Seriously, sometimes passion can come across.

No, that's passion.

It's not harsh because I care.

I don't want to see you without a job.

Yeah, people are going to go buy them a nice camera.

They would rather go spend a thousand dollars, two thousand dollars on the camera and then do that themselves because they think, well, that's all you did.

All you did was came and said, I didn't really get much out of that.

And so that's what they're doing.

They're going to get a nicer camera and they're doing it themselves.

And you're like, actually, what you're supposed to be providing them is a vision board.

What you're supposed to be.

Because that was going to be one of my questions.

My question was going to be, what kind of structure do people need to have in their business?

I know you talked about from like the.

Obviously from the brand side, they need to know how to communicate.

But it's like I was going to ask about what kind of other business structure.

They need to kind of just go.

People are just so busy doing the task that they haven't sat down to get the structure.

But you actually answered both in one.

You're saying from a videographer, you're not.

Or.

And a photographer, you're not headed towards the path of cinematography.

If you do not have the ability to think strategically about something, bring a vision together.

That's what you bake.

That.

And that's nothing wrong with that.

That's where you.

You're basically giving them direction and saying, I'm so passionate.

I'd rather see you go here.

Because a person can.

They can't just.

They can go buy a camera, but they cannot suddenly become a cinematographer.

And you can do it even on your photo shoot level, Even on a simple video shoot level you're coming to.

I'm just going to get some BTs and it's like, yeah, but get the BTs with like, get some vision about yourself.

Right?

What are we communicating here?

Right.

Like, I'm coming to do this video.

Okay, this is what we want to do.

This is what we want to do.

This is the direction.

If you do that, that's setting you up to become where you're trying to go.

And even if you're not trying to get to this cinematography, because I don't care about making more than 250 an hour, you might want to care about the fact that people are going to replace you at Best Buy.

At Best Buy.

That's what you're saying.

And so I. I actually feel like it needed to be said outside of those things that they're saying, like having some vision, like having at least a brand approach or like you said, hiring somebody you already gave them.

That's a structure piece.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:48:59

Yeah, right.

ShySpeaks: 00:48:59

That's why I say you answer the question.

Because it's like, if I can't do it, I need to hire somebody who can do that and put that in my invoice.

And it's like, hey, I'm gonna come on and do the photos.

But I have this young lady that I work with.

Me and her work together as a team.

She pulls all this together and it helps.

And so you're like, hey, so I know I would have did it for 150, but can we do it for 200?

And they're, they're invoicing your, Your, your agency, and your agency is like, okay, because guess what?

When you get there, you're gonna make sure everything is how it's supposed to be and you're more likely to pay it.

I, I think all of that, at least I learned it.

And I don't even know how to do videography or photography, but I'm on the path I.

To be a cinematographer because Devin just taught me how.

Okay.

No, seriously, I'll ask you.

I want to ask you one more question, and I want this question to be kind of what we.

What we.

Where we bring this to a halt because we can't keep talking and talking and talking as much as we want to, like you said, because we have to do the part two.

So y' all heard her say it.

There's another conversation for another time.

So do we have your confirmation for a part two?

Yeah, I got it on camera.

That's not how you're supposed to blindside nobody.

You're supposed to ask them off camera.

But she was so direct, I figured.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:50:05

No, I mean, it's the same thing because we'll be doing a music project together, so.

ShySpeaks: 00:50:10

So you see how she just did that?

Yeah.

This is how we friends bully each other, amongst each other.

And this is how collaboration actually happens in a very, you know, direct way.

Indirect, anyway.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:50:24

Yeah.

ShySpeaks: 00:50:25

So I wanted to ask one more question as it relates to.

And Ron, you can ask if you want to, but I know that we talk a lot about strategy, we talk about structure.

And I wanted to ask, like, what are some other structural pieces that people need in their business?

But when you talked about the mistakes, you talked about structure.

When you talked about the videographers and photographers, what they.

Like, you talked about the structure that they can have.

So I'm not going to ask about that.

Another thing that we talk about, though, is, is self development.

And we talk about sustainability.

Right.

How do you make things sustainable, especially as that creative CEO.

I'm a creative CEO, and I don't want to just do this for a short run, I want to be able to be in this for the long haul.

How do I create this business so that it has longevity?

And more so when I look at myself, what are some of the things that I'm doing as a person to develop?

Right, and we asked you one development question about how you develop capacity, but I wanted to ask another question as it relates to sustainability.

Right?

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:51:30

Yeah, yeah.

So I would, I would say a few angles I'm going to take.

So the first one would be.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:51:39

From.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:51:39

A personal development standpoint, you want to have like, leaders.

Even if you're a leader and a known leader, like, like.

And people attribute that to you.

You need to have mentors that you look up to that you serve.

If you have people serving you, but you're not serving anybody else, like, at some point you're going to become a narcissist.

Like, it just like, literally, because now you put a God element of yourself, right?

Like, I know everything you do.

Like, you need to know that you will never know everything.

There is always something new to learn.

There's always something different you can do to grow and a new tool you can put on your tool belt that you can pass down to your team.

So like, I think that once you kind of put your team in automation, then at that point the goal is to make sure who are you serving?

Like, who, who are you serving?

Who do you look up to that you can continue to learn from and never feel like you are too good to serve, like, ever, right?

And serving may mean not being paid.

Like, it just may mean serving like, right?

And so I think like having a mentor at all times and you should have like different mentors.

You should have mentor for like your, your personal life.

Like, if you were to trade your personal life with their life, like, that would be a qualification of them being a mentor.

Meaning, like, you look up to them.

Like, I would trade this right now.

Like, okay, I can from what I know, right?

And then the same thing from a financial standpoint and business standpoint.

If you have business mentors that cannot properly communicate to you, like real numbers of their business, like real personal gains, real deficits, like, then they're not like a real business owner that you should be learning from.

Like a business mentor.

A lot of people like hire business mentors and like, if you ask them specific questions, like, you would see that they're not a real business owner.

Like, you know, so like making sure that the business own the business.

Consultants you hire, like, are like, they have the Qualifications, like, have you, Like, I can say, I can genuinely say that I have helped businesses scale by hundreds of thousands as well as millions, like, on both different spectrum.

I have receipts, like, from my strategy.

This has a $20 million gain from this campaign.

Like, I have actual results.

So I can tell you, like, strategy from that.

It's lived experience.

If people don't have those lived experiences and they're just regurgitating information they heard from another person on YouTube, like, they're not your, they should not be your business mentor or business consultant.

Like, that's another mentor you need to have.

And then number three, some.

Something in that regard to that spiritual realm, right?

Like spiritual growth.

I think, like, all three of those are going to help you continue to grow as a leader and put systems in place for your own personal life where you can grow so your team can grow as far as systems that you need to do for your business.

Again, going back to writing everything down, all of your processes and also making like, an organizational tree.

Like, okay, if I'm in: 2026

Right?

And so when people want to join my team and I'm looking for people to join my team, I know where eventually I can place them at and start filling those holes and those gaps.

Right.

I think that creatives and entrepreneurs alike start businesses where they don't think of the end game in mind.

Like, you should never start a business and not know how you're going to exit.

Otherwise, you, all you've done is sell your soul for money because you'll just always be working for the next check.

You don't know what even what you're, what you're working for.

You don't have, like, a goal.

Like, you know, now God will change things and all, and he'll change the goal post, but at least, you know, have some goal posts now when you start a business, like before Girls Trip Society even was born and formed.

I already know how I'm gonna exit.

ShySpeaks: 00:55:42

Yeah.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:55:42

Now if God, the only thing that's gonna change is how God.

If God changes how I exit.

But I have something that I'm going towards as far as how I'm building that organization of how I'm gonna exit.

ShySpeaks: 00:55:52

Yeah, yeah, right.

I, I, I, I appreciate what you said about sustainability and those things that you listed out.

I was actually going to also ask you one more, one more question before we close.

I was going to ask you about what it, what do creatives need to, what do they need to do to shift from that creative into that CEO mode?

Because I know you've worked with plenty of businesses and you're like, you got this thing going, but you're not really in CEO mode.

And before I even ask the question, you already answered it.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:56:23

Well, I have another, another way to answer it too that I think will help.

ShySpeaks: 00:56:26

Okay.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:56:27

Creatives, if it's you, hope you are.

ShySpeaks: 00:56:28

And you do not, go ahead, help them out.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:56:32

You know how like, you shy your left brain, right brain.

ShySpeaks: 00:56:38

Yeah.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:56:39

So you have like innately the operation side that just comes to you naturally.

Systems analytics, all of those things.

And then you have the creative side, which we'll call so you can switch your brain.

Not everybody has that.

And I think sometimes creatives just need to be true creatives and get really, really good at that and be super excellent at that.

And what they need to do is partner with somebody who has the other side of their brain.

And like, that's all they do.

And that's where getting over the fear of like partnering with somebody like is going to help you increase your bottom line in your roi.

Like, you can still be the owner of the business.

Right.

And get you to a certain point where now I can pay somebody to come in and help establish my systems.

And at least you should be able to learn enough to where if they leave, you can still do it.

Like you should be able to, but you don't have to.

I think like, that's where creatives sometimes get stuck is like feeling like they're the ones who have to like do it and execute it.

Like, no, just find the right person who can come in and build that out for you.

Like literally.

And then now you can just focus on your what you're really, really good at.

ShySpeaks: 00:57:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Listen, I told y', all this is what's going we was.

This is presidential level things that we've been doing today.

You know, I'm always being silly, but I'm also being serious.

This is a Devin Wilmot Johnson, who is the award winning philanthropist, the brand strategist, the event curator and the owner of just multiple entities.

And I can see why you are because you have.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:58:22

Did I say anything too harsh?

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:58:24

No, no.

ShySpeaks: 00:58:26

See, she's sweet.

She care.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:58:28

It's because I care.

ShySpeaks: 00:58:30

I didn't say anything too bad.

You were really helping.

Like if you say you're a photographer, you are good with a camera, you just.

But you're not on the path to cinematography.

You're not on the path here and this is the path you should be on.

And we're trying to get creative entrepreneurs to up level that we're trying to get them to mind their creative business.

And even what you just said there at the end.

Yeah this fear of partnership, like get into partnership with people, it's okay.

And it doesn't have to be like partnership and you say where you're, you're not the majority owner of the company anymore and anything like that.

But it's not that you have to do everything.

It's just everything needs to get done and you need to see that it happens.

And seeing that it happens sometimes may need to be you bringing in somebody else.

And of course she would say that because she is the person you need to be brought in.

If somebody want to bring you in and say okay, I want your company to be the brand strategies.

We're at 50, we're at 50 this K or we're at 20 K and we're at whatever.

We're trying to get to this neck.

We're at 10k trying to get to 20.

We're at 20 get trying to get to 50 and we.

I hear what you say, you work with high value clients.

I'm.

I'm stuck.

I'm trying to get to that next level.

What, how can they work with you?

What, what is something that you have going right now that we can link in our description that people can say actually I want to hire their team as a strategist.

How do they go about doing that?

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 00:59:47

Yes.

So I'm going to say this and then I'm going to tell you how you can connect with me.

It's important.

It's very important.

Steve Jobs never built a computer.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 01:00:00

Right.

Devin Wilmott-Johnson: 01:00:02

So if you as a creative know or a business owner or entrepreneur, if you know that Steve Jobs never built a computer yet here we are.

I have like two MacBooks iPhone.

There's a Mac right here.

Then you can do this.

Even if you don't have all of the skills and the tools and the assets to be able to do it alone, it's okay to build a team around you that can make your vision come to life and work with you on that.

So as long as you know that you're gonna be successful now how you can work with me and my team, you can go to the dwjco.com and you can just click on book a consultation and then you'll be able to book a consultation with my team and we'll be able to lead you to the right programs and offerings that we have.

If you are a woman or a young lady, you can join Girls Trip society.

So girls tripsociety.com girls trip society on all platforms where we provide women with grants for their business.

We provide, you know, travel opportunities.

nts that will be happening in: 2026

So you need to build your team.

You can come build your team in Girls Society.

You know, find some people, help build a team together and at you won't but Dev will with a U.

Like that's my personal on all platforms and yeah, that's how you can connect with me.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 01:01:36

That is awesome.

That is awesome.

Thank you.

This has been a phenomenal interview.

Like I said, if y' all ain't got nothing, I know me and Shy have got stuff.

But yeah, y' all are smart bunch of people, so I know y' all got something.

So we want to thank you all right, as well as our guests for, for being here.

Thank you all for making it this far through the episode.

So if you made it this far, we know you serious about minding your creative business.

So if you have not already, which you should, you should have subscribed by now.

So go ahead and subscribe, right?

Go ahead and hit that like button, right?

Go ahead and share and leave a comment as well.

But we want you to do some other stuff as well.

But I'm going to pass it on to Shy because once again, you've been hearing our guest talk, you've heard us talk.

Now it's time for y' all to do some talk.

ShySpeaks: 01:02:24

We end every episode with a mantra that we all say out loud.

Everybody in the studio and you watching online.

We do that because self development is important and an aspect of self development is positive.

Self talk.

And you have to hear yourself speak well to yourself about yourself.

Now before I do that, you also heard Devin talk a lot about going from a creative to a CEO creative to a creative CEO, where we actually have a challenge that we want you to join.

This MMCB Media is not just a podcast.

We are actually helping create creative CEOs.

So if you're like, I don't know the first thing about trying to pay $20,000 for nobody to do nothing.

Okay, I want you to join the Creative to CEO.

Nuh, we want you to join the Creative to CEO challenge.

Click the link that's somewhere related to this video and you can do so.

Super simple.

I mean it's not even $100 to join.

It's a five day challenge and then you're going to be able to get to that 10k plus month so you can start having those type of clients that you want all those types of things but you have to do it in a challenge in an environment with people who are going to push you also with people who are like minded, right?

So you really want to get in that environment because once you're in that environment not only are you up leveling your business you'll also have the opportunity to collaborate with other people and then maybe you can find some of those partners that she talked about so eloquently on this particular episode.

Now, now back to the mantra.

Now I want everybody here to repeat after me right all it takes all it takes is intention is intention consistency, consistency and laser focus.

And laser focus to mind my creative business.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 01:04:06

To mind my creative business.

ShySpeaks: 01:04:08

And on that note we're out.