How She Built a Marketing Agency from Scratch | The Systems Every Creative Business Needs

ShySpeaks: 00:00:00

You do not need systems to start. You start with the talent.

Sammi Bivens: 00:00:03

I had interviewed, tried many things, nothing worked. I'll create my own. I built my first website.

ShySpeaks: 00:00:09

What is the end for me is the end for me a restaurant is the end for me a catering company that serves this greater area? If the end is to serve that, I have to go find the tools that somebody of a company of my caliber where I'm going would have people.

Sammi Bivens: 00:00:24

Think I'm going to get my Instagram popping and that's all I need to do. That's not true. Your website is is a part of your digital presence and should be a part of your digital marketing strategy.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:00:33

Our goal and what we're developing here is trying to develop that community piece. Because if one creator win, I think all creators win.

Based on you listening to this podcast, you're probably a creative entrepreneur who's ready to stop hustling for clients and start building a business that runs on purpose, profit and peace.

ShySpeaks: 00:00:58

If that's you, we want to invite you to join the Creative to CEO challenge. A five day live coaching experience designed to help you shift your mindset and develop the habits to turn your creativity into consistent cash flow.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:01:11

And it's all happening live on Zoom inside a private community of ambitious creative entrepreneurs just like you. People who are done guessing, done grinding and ready to build with clarity and confidence.

ShySpeaks: 00:01:23

By the end of the challenge, you will have a crystal clear direction on your next 90 days. A profit plan that fits your lifestyle and the framework to start earning 10k plus months doing what you love without burning out or selling out.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:01:37

So if that sounds like what you need, then tap the link in the description or scan a QR code if you're watching this on screen. And do not forget to upgrade to VIP for bonus coaching and behind the scenes Q and A every day of the challenge with me and Shy.

ShySpeaks: 00:01:52

We can't wait to help you unlock CEO mode and the freedom you've been working for. Now let's get back to that episode. What's up and welcome to the Mind and My Creative Business podcast.

The number one podcast for creative entrepreneurs to learn, gain strategy, structure and self development all in one place. I am your co host, Shot Speaks.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:02:13

And I'm your co host Ron Ron ironically Junior.

ShySpeaks: 00:02:16

And y' all know I'm always saying I'm super excited about this one because this is gonna probably be one of my favorite ones. All of my favorite.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:02:24

All of them are literally your favorite.

ShySpeaks: 00:02:25

It's because we have the honor to have a conversation and introduce to you Let me let you know.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:02:33

Listen, so I'm, I, I gotta. She got so many accolades, right? I gotta read, I want to read it because it's like trying to memorize it. It's a lot.

So we have before us the founder of the digital marketing Maven and Associates, a firm that has generated over millions of dollars in revenue and helped more than 350 businesses grow. We have Goldman Sachs, 10,000 small business alum, Dallas based digital strategist from Arkansas. We have here Ms. Sammy Bivens.

ShySpeaks: 00:03:09

And I know there was so much more.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:03:11

It's a lot more.

ShySpeaks: 00:03:11

He was like, I want to ra. You know, I'm kind of like, what is going on? But matter of fact, we don't have to look on the bio.

We have you right here getting ready to have conversation and delve into and go behind the brand that is Sammy Bivens or all the businesses and accolades. So let's get into it. You ready?

Sammi Bivens: 00:03:28

I'm ready.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:03:29

But before we do that, how would you introduce yourself?

Sammi Bivens: 00:03:31

How would I introduce myself? You know, I would just tell people, I'm Sammy B. I'm a founder and CEO. I love helping women.

I love helping black women especially take their business to the next level through digital strategy and AI innovation. That's literally all I would normally say, but I thank you for reading them.

ShySpeaks: 00:03:55

It was serious situations that was going on. I know you want to put that in there. I love asking that question. How would you introduce yourself?

Because a lot of times we see ourselves in such a simplified way and, and the thing I love about that is that you're able to take other people's business and then magnify it right through the digital strategy, through the AI. And so I want to get into like the first question, you ready to roll? Or we, we got something else we want to ask, like, what's her.

What's her favorite superhero? All right, so my, my thought on that. When you were saying you love helping women, you helping brands, period, you are a fractional cmo, right?

And that was one of the accolades that we didn't put on here. No, seriously. But you are a fractional cmo. When you think about what you do, there is usually a.

There's a difference in between people who have structure, who needed someone like you, and then how they show up, you're like, okay, some brands you can't work with because they don't even have things in place. But the ones who have things in place, and it's like, okay, this is what the business is doing. Their structure There.

But how do we amplify that and help them show up in reality in the digital world? How do you usually reconcile that?

Sammi Bivens: 00:05:19

Well, that's a very. The way you stated it. Because there are some businesses who have no structure and no real foundation, if you will, to work off of.

So it makes it a very hard job to try to come in and help them build that. Because that's kind of outside of the scope of what I do.

But in order for me to do a good job for them, I have to kind of help them with operations and things like that. But for my businesses that do have that foundation and they just need someone, maybe they're too busy to handle the marketing.

They've scaled to a point where they don't have time to post, they don't have time to think about the strategy. They're just operating and going. What I find is a lot of those people have a hard time letting go.

Like they kind of have in their mind, this is how I want things to be, how they look. But you're hiring someone for a reason. Because you need help. You want to go to the next level.

So if you knew everything and every step and you could do it because sometimes they know but you, you can't execute. Right. You have to kind of let go. So sometimes that is the biggest challenge actually. Like getting them to let go and trust.

ShySpeaks: 00:06:23

Wow.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:06:23

Now with that, since you said that's like the biggest thing. Right. It's the biggest thing that, the hurdle that they have to overcome and I'm sure you have to overcome working with them as a client.

How do you get them to overcome that? Cause like you said, they. And I'm assuming you work with a lot of like creatives like ourselves.

So creatives like Erykah Badu, I'm sensitive about my stuff. Right. So they holding on. So what is your approach to letting them.

Sammi Bivens: 00:06:46

Well, before we even get started. Okay. Before we even take that step to decide. Because I look at when I work with my clients as a partnership, so I'm a part of your business now.

Like I'm coming in to help you go to the next level. So before we even get to the point of deciding we're going to work together, that understanding has to be in place of. This is how it works.

These are the things that we're going to be doing. Here's the vision. Here are the things that I'm thinking could work for you. And I need to have their buy in before we even get started.

Because if I have to try to get the buy in after the contract is signed, it just makes it a long road. So it's like really doing it up front and making sure we're on the same page before we even get started.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:07:28

Okay, what's your process or your steps to get that up front?

Sammi Bivens: 00:07:33

So typically, you know, people inquire however they come through and then we have a. I do a discovery call or a consultation. Discovery call is 15 minutes, consultation is an hour and it's paid.

And so with that, before we even have either call, there's a questionnaire that they fill out where I get a good idea of what are their pain points. What are you doing? Like giving me all of their information.

So before we even get on the call, I can research, have questions in mind, and then I'm able to have a conversation with them about their business, what they're looking for.

And then afterwards I go back, I take that, research, that conversation, and then I put it together, like in a proposal that states, here's what I think we should do, here's the direction that we could go in, and then from there, most of the time, if they're in alignment, then that's how we know we can move forward. Because I've already laid out to you, here's what I'm seeing for you.

And then, and then outside of that, here's our process and how we work as a, as a team.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:08:31

So you mentioned that. So are both the strategy and the discovery call paid or.

Sammi Bivens: 00:08:36

No, the strategy session or business consultation is paid and the discovery call is 15 minutes and I have it.

Well, I had to start having those because I would just let people book calls and then you waste a lot of time because everybody's not ready or they're not even that serious. They just see that they can set up a call. So you waste a lot of time. I figured that out very early on.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:09:00

The tire kickers.

Sammi Bivens: 00:09:01

Yeah, yeah. I'm just trying to figure out, you know, but then I do the calls.

The 15 minute call is mostly people they've researched or their referral and they know that they want to work with me. They just want to talk real quick. But then on the strategy sessions, it's.

They, they may have real questions and they want to not be sold to, but they want to understand that you understand them and they know that they're in good hands and they feel comfortable about moving forward and making the investment to work together.

ShySpeaks: 00:09:30

I love it. Ron, ask operations question, like, what's the process? What's the. I was thinking it myself. I was like, man, it seems so you take care of that.

And in onboarding, but even before onboarding, even in the discovery phase.

And so I think people, we talked one time about your client journey, and I think people think about the client from the time after you buy your client. But there are some stuff that happens on the before end and that lead into it.

And so I love what you're talking about, especially for someone who's watching this, who may be an aspiring digital marketing company owner, or maybe they already own the company and they're like, oh, yes, I'm experiencing that right now. Then they now just realize how to. How to change that. Now we.

We hop right in because I wanted to hop in and get into who this woman was behind the accolades. But sometimes we want to know the origin, like, and. And usually the origins begins to unpack the. The strategy that this person takes.

So you want to add some kind of origin?

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:10:35

No, definitely, definitely. So I noticed that prior to your digital marketing agency, you had another business that you had an endeavor on where you had a jury business.

What was the strategy behind, I guess transitioning or pivoting from that? Because it seemed to be pretty successful, right?

It was almost a decade in business, but after a certain point, you was like, yeah, I'm gonna do something different. So tell us about that pivot.

ShySpeaks: 00:11:03

And here's the reason why. Because there is a difference in like, sometimes we need to quit, sometimes we need to pivot, sometimes we need to graduate.

Well, we oftentimes don't need to quit. It's either pivot or graduate. And so we're really curious about that because people can speak to how to get to the next level.

Sammi Bivens: 00:11:22

I love that. And I love graduate. I like that. You know, that's a good little spot me, but so tainted Rose. I. Okay, I'm gonna make a long story short.

So I went to college. Like you said, I'm a first generation college student. So I went just because I wanted to get out of my small town.

I grew up in the country town, dirt roads, you know, that type of vibe. And so I just knew I wanted to go to college. But my parents didn't go. So there was no one telling me, you know, or preparing me for that experience.

So I went. No idea what I wanted to major in. Well, I thought I wanted to do psychology, social work, criminal justice.

And then I got to criminal justice and realized I needed to be a police officer before I could be a detective. And I said I didn't want to do that part. So I ended up Checking out the business department and found marketing.

And it was drawn to me because it's always changing and evolving and you get to create. So I'm like, okay, I can stick with this one. And graduated. But I had to work the whole time. I worked in banking. I was a teller throughout college.

So graduated with no marketing experience in Arkansas with not a lot of job opportunities. Graduated in 09. It was a recession going on, so it was just a lot of things that I was not prepared for.

So I continued working in banking, but I always wanted to officially work in marketing. So Tainted Rose came about because I was like, well, no one's giving me an opportunity. I had interviewed, tried many things. Nothing worked.

I'll create my own. So my cousin and I, we, you know, started making jewelry by hand at first, and it was successful. I would have jewelry parties and things like that.

And then we learned about how to buy, wholesale, and resale to people. I built my first website, and things were really going great. But I always had a desire to work in corporate marketing.

Now, mind you, I had no business foundation. I had a business degree, but that doesn't teach you how to be a business owner, right? So I did everything wrong. It was more like a side hustle.

Like, we can call it a business. But I was like, I had to learn about paying taxes. I had to learn about all the things. I was just making money having jewelry parties.

I would have my little jewelry station set up everywhere from the club to churches. I was everywhere with it out the trunk, you know, until I learned. Until I built the website and I was shipping. So I had it for a very long time.

But then things changed. The jewelry that I was selling or the types of things that my customers wanted from me, they could now go into Forever 21 and buy.

They could go into the mall and get it, and it wasn't a. You know, and then I couldn't compete with their prices. Right. Scale, right? So I couldn't compete with that.

And so I knew then this is gonna, like, probably phase out at some point. So I went into custom jewelry, where we made, like, necklaces and name plates and things with people's. Even their signature, a fingerprint.

We did things like that. But eventually it just kind of became, like, not as profitable as it used to be. So I moved to Dallas.

I was working at a financial services company by then, and I was, like, coming to Dallas every week, trying to find an interview, and I was interviewing any and everywhere. I'm just like, I just need to get a job and When I get there, I'll figure the marketing thing out. That didn't work. And then I was gone so much.

My company was like, we'll pay you to leave. Basically they paid me like two months salary out because they didn't want to fire me.

But they knew I didn't want to be there and it was such a blessing. Like wow, just one of those meant to be things. So I came. A friend let me stay on her couch.

I did that and then eventually found a job at a edtech company helping colleges and universities promote their programs and enroll students. So think of like your UT, TX, UT, Tyler, schools like that, that needed marketing support and like operations support.

We did that off site here in Dallas. And so I actually came in as an enrollment specialist. And one day after a town hall meeting, the CEO was standing around and I just walked up to him.

He had came from Travelocity and was talking about all these marketing initiatives. And I was like, hey, I introduced myself, I have a marketing degree, I have a business, I'm just looking for an opportunity.

And from that he set up a meeting with the cmo. And then the next week they had created a role for me as a marketing coordinator. And so that's how I got into marketing officially.

And so at that point I was really locked in and focused on that the Tanner Rose wasn't doing as great as it had in the past. So I focused on that, studied and got my mba. They paid for it. So I kind of locked in.

And then after graduating with my mba, they had, they weren't trying to promote me any further. So that sent me to Chicago to where I was working for a larger edtech company that's global, doing the same work but on a larger scale.

And so from there I was like, but I still want, I want to have my own thing, you know, like you always got to have something like you can't depend on just your corporate, you know, situation. So I started consulting on the side. People would ask me to help me with their, with their business, help me get started, help me with my marketing.

I see you're doing it in corporate. You've had this business because T roll shipped to almost all 50 states and outside of the country like it was doing great.

So people recognized that, then saw me, you know, with my corporate career. And so what I started out doing was just telling people here, do these, take these steps, do these things.

And I realized they needed someone to help them do more than just say go do this. Cuz most people need help with the Execution. And so that's really how the agency started. So that's really the. You asked me, why did I graduate?

But it's really a story of, like, just how the journey life took me on and me responding in real time.

ShySpeaks: 00:17:36

Yeah, yeah.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:17:37

No, it was perfect.

ShySpeaks: 00:17:39

I know you're probably like, I'm gonna make a long story short.

Sammi Bivens: 00:17:41

I tried. I tried.

ShySpeaks: 00:17:44

But it was good, because ultimately, I know I was listening somewhat, probably with the strategy ears. Like, when you hear someone's origin story, you can hear why they are drawn to what they're doing. You said psychology, sociology.

And technically, the realm of business that you're in with regard to marketing and communications draws on psychology and things like that. So it's like you. Matter of fact, it's all psychology, right?

It's just psychology for the purpose of selling a product or service to a particular target market.

And so I think that if somebody is listening to this and they're a creative entrepreneur and they're trying to figure out which realm of business you're going into, you look at your origins, what's true to you, what you really love, you really love. And you really have a knack for the psychology of things. And that now moves you into the psychology of business, which is marketing.

And now you then start talking to consulting people about the psychology of marketing that they can apply to their business. And then we move into implementation. We graduate into teaching people how to implement. But there was a pivot, too, that was in there.

The pivot was the jewelry is doing well in this regard. But when the economies change, I now have to pivot into custom work so that we can kind of create some profit margin there.

So I heard all of that in there, and I just really enjoyed hearing about the journey.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:19:09

No, that was. No, like I said, I picked up on that pivot from that as well, where it's like, it was a needs thing. It's like my revenue was dipping because nobody.

No, I'm saying nobody wants it, but they can go somewhere else to get it, and they can get it less expensive. So now what do I got to do? Oh, I can customize. But then even that. That's only so much.

So talking about sustainability, where it's like, this isn't sustainable, right? So now I gotta pivot, right? And then you incorporate and you like corporate. This isn't sustainable. So I'm gonna do something on the side.

I'm gonna have my consulting business, right? So now I'm consulting because people are coming to me, getting information. I'm just probably not charging for it.

So let me start charging for it in consulting.

ShySpeaks: 00:19:49

Right.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:19:49

But then it was like, okay, I went from consulting to now you got this full blown agency. So.

Sammi Bivens: 00:19:54

And let me say two things on that, okay? With the jewelry and like having to pivot and recognizing when things are changing. I think that's the time we live in right now with technology.

AI, like how things are coming. Like, if I don't pivot as a marketing agency right now, people can go out and do a lot of things on their own.

I mean, to a certain extent, you know, there's still the knowledge and how to make things work that go behind it, but I still have to pivot. Right, right. And then also with corporate, you know, I was laid off after Covid, so had I not. And I just never went back to corporate.

I haven't applied for a job or anything. I think that's been four years. I think that's four years now that I've been full time because I stay. I had my corporate job.

This is seven years in business. And I had my corporate job up until I got laid off. And so.

But I'm glad I had something because if I didn't, I would have just been another person laid off during COVID trying to find a job. And we all remember, you know, that was a very rough time.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:20:55

Definitely, Definitely.

ShySpeaks: 00:20:56

I love it.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:20:57

Yeah, no, this is dope.

ShySpeaks: 00:20:58

I love it.

Okay, so you get to this point, we, we get to this point where you now have this agency or this, this marketing firm, if you will, and there are people like, okay, that's cool. I'm, I'm with all of that, but how do we. I have this firm, I feel like I have clients, but I don't really feel like I have a company.

What are some of the things that, that you have to implement into your business? Structure wise, process wise systems or even people. Right. It could be automation, it could be delegation.

What are some of the things that you have to implement in order to go from like, okay, I have some clients, but no, this is an actual company.

Sammi Bivens: 00:21:35

Yeah, well, it's the people for sure. Because what I was doing was saying, hey, go get a website, go get a logo made, do these things.

But I had no quality control to like, what they were actually getting, how long it took, you know, certain things. And then it's like, you get it. I'm like, this is bad.

You know, so that's what made me hire my first person is because they could do like graphic design and logos. And then I learned how to do websites myself. And so for a while that's what we were doing.

And then, and then he would like maybe make graphics and things that we could embed in the website to make it look good.

But then I went out and, you know, found web developers and built out the team and found experts in different areas and to bring it all together for our clients. So definitely the, the people. Because if you're really trying to run a company, a business, you can't do everything yourself or, I mean, every.

No one's good at everything. You may know enough to be dangerous, or you may know enough to know when something's not right. But I, I'm not writing code like that.

You know what I mean? So there's that.

And then from, from there you, once you start to bring in people, you have to have operating procedures, so SOPs and documenting the process so that every time you bring in a new person, you don't have to stop and train them. They can refer to an sop. You can make sure other people know how to train them. And then we realized, okay, I need systems.

And so, because what I was doing in corporate is closely related because it was consulting and working with clients in a way. I was like, what systems was I using in corporate? And okay, I can't afford those, but what's a small business friendly and affordable version?

So we used like Wrike, which is a project management tool in corporate. I have Asana that I use with my clients as well as with my team. We use Microsoft CRM. I use Honeybook as my CRM.

So I just went through and found like, what was I doing? How was I managing things in corporate? And then what are those systems and tools that I need to implement in my business?

And I did that from the very beginning. Like, we may have had two clients and I was like, I need a system or I need this. Because I always knew what the end goal was.

And so I tell myself this as well as my clients start how you want to finish. Like, if, you know, you see things going bigger, then you got to be prepared for it. Because when the clients come, the business come.

It's going to fall apart if you don't have a system in place.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:24:06

He's talking to her talk. She, see her smile, you see her moving over there.

ShySpeaks: 00:24:14

It's so true. I tell people all the times there's a difference. You know, like, man, why this? Why this restaurant? It's really good. Why it's busting?

Why hasn't it gone nationwide? Because they weren't. They didn't have a nationwide wide mindset when they started.

Those people who set out and say we're going to start this torches tacos and it's going to be multi chain, it's going to be a franchise. They then build the business differently.

The food is still the same tacos, there's probably a nice little tacos pop in some city wherever you are watching this from and you feel like it's better. But they, when they, when they started, they started with this in mind and that's where they're ending with this in mind.

Because they didn't start with scale in mind.

And I say that because I always tell Ron, you, especially when it comes to creative entrepreneurs, you do not need systems to start, but you do need systems to scale. And so oftentimes people would just start with the talent, your talent, marketing insights and psychology.

And my talent is, you know, I could go, you know, and this person is, or the jewelry making customs, visuals, whatever it is, they start, start with the culinary cooking, you start with the talent and you just get started with the next thing you know you're in business and next thing you know you got people coming, you got orders, you're making money.

And you never really thought about what it would look like to scale out this selling plates into an actual catering company or from a catering company if we want to go restaurant. Because some people, that's two totally different worlds. So you never really think about it.

So if you begin with I can cook, people are coming to me, okay. When I used to work for this restaurant, I saw how they handled their catering side. I love that you talked about that. A lot of times we just.

The reason why some of our businesses stay hobbies is because, well, like I said, it's a side hustle or like, you know, it's because they, they don't apply the things that they learn at work into their business. Yes. No, you cannot afford that. That is an enterprise level software.

But you can afford a software that's intended to be for SMBs, aka small businesses, right? So I, I love that you talked about that.

So if I'm sitting down and I know that I can cook right, And I see people coming, at some point I gotta say what is the end for me, right? Is the end for me a restaurant is the end for me. Multiple restaurants is the end for me a nice catering company that serves this greater area.

What is the end for me?

And if, if the end is to serve that I have to go find the tools that somebody of a company of My caliber, where I'm going would have shout out to you, this is the first high five. You're not just an entrepreneur, you are a creative entrepreneur.

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Sammi Bivens: 00:27:45

Yeah, well, I think a lot of small business owners, they have their talent, but because we're not. If you don't come from an entrepreneurial background, like seeing your parents do it, you may not know what you don't know.

Most people don't know what they don't know know. So you have to figure it out. And that's why like community is important. Doing programs. You mentioned the Goldman Sachs program that I did.

I did several business accelerators and things like that because, yeah, I have an mba. Yeah, you know all of that. But it really does not prepare you for the trenches.

ShySpeaks: 00:28:17

Okay.

Sammi Bivens: 00:28:18

But I've done programs and things like that. So if there's anything I would encourage small business owners to do is go get some knowledge.

Like don't take those programs for granted because you just being in community is one thing, but also having the opportunity to learn from others who are, where you're trying to go is invaluable.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:28:37

Right, but, and I love that level of assessment. Right. Where I see you're constantly assessing. I'm assessing my situation. Looks like I'm assessing my clients, I'm assessing me.

I'm saying, okay, I've given them what they need to go to do to execute and implement, but what they're bringing back, that's not, that's not what I had in mind. Right. So now I have to add on to what I provide to get them the results that they need to get or that I'm trying to get them to have.

So that level of self awareness. I'm loving hearing that in your story.

ShySpeaks: 00:29:06

Yeah, quality control fees.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:29:08

Right.

ShySpeaks: 00:29:08

And that's how we begin to scale our business. Now I'm just, I'm at this point I'm owning the different verticals because I want to control of the quality.

I tell them sometimes I intentionally use like we want to do this podcast for creative entrepreneurs. And a lot of times on the entrepreneurship podcast that's not specifically for creatives.

They're not using, they're using all these terminologies and it's like what are they even talking about? All this business speak. But you basically talked about it. I then owned each particular outcome or what we would call a different vertical.

And so we're just kind of introducing those terms because people, you could be a culture co creative and you don't know what I'm talking about. Yeah, but, but yeah, I love what you're talking about as well.

And even that insight of joining those different entrepreneurship type of programs and communities and commitments because it will up level your knowledge of entrepreneurship in a way that you didn't know. Now we didn't talk a lot about the like we talk about business in general. But what are some marketing specific.

I know you did give us some, what tools you use. But if somebody is wanting to, to kind of scale their digital marketing company, what are some things that you would say?

Like this is very important specifically to like it's not for coaches, it's not for, you know, all the other creative. This is specifically for people who are in our realm. This stuff is important. Let's talk about that.

Sammi Bivens: 00:30:28

Well, I would say starting with pain points, like really understanding who it is that you're trying to serve and what are their pain points and how can you bring value? Like how can you bring solutions to what it is that they're needing? So I think you could talk about a lot of depending on who you serve.

You can talk about a lot of fancy things that you can do, but ultimately it's about what that particular client needs. What is the solution, what is the thing that's going to take them to the next level.

So I always start with assessing what are, what, what is it that you're needing help with. You have a great product. Product is, you know, selling and doing what it needs to do. But you're still missing something on the marketing side.

So it's always for me going back to assess what, where they are and what it is.

And then figuring out how to leverage technology AI, because we can move faster now, like, a lot of these things that would take me a couple weeks to, like, research or figure out what's going on. I have tools at my disposal that I can use to research to move faster because I know the principles.

I know it from a textbook, you know, standpoint, you know, but it's taking that and then mirroring it with today's time. Because I tell people I got my marketing degree in 09. It's obsolete, really at this point because so much has changed.

But the principles are the same, but the way we do it is different. So I tell people, find out what those tools are for your industry and leverage them for me. I use a lot of AI.

I use so many things, like, just to create SOPs, to create all the things. A lot of those things I'm not really doing manually at this point.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:32:05

So understanding the principle, having a foundation. Right. Because now I'm able to add on to it. Right.

A lot of times people are using these tools, but they don't know the foundation or the principles behind what they're trying to get. So that's why they don't have a level of success that somebody like you would have. Because it's like, no, I got.

I got my degree, but the foundation, the principles, all that stuff is there. All I'm doing is adding on to it. This is just assisting me.

ShySpeaks: 00:32:28

Yeah. So, yeah, I want to ask you a question about the difference in, like, digital marketing and then social media marketing.

Because I'm sure somebody's watching this and they're like, I keep getting. Everything is just social media, social media, social media. And there's so many other levels of.

And layers to, like, a digital strategy that lives beyond social media. So how do you get people to lift their mindset? Okay, now we got the social media side, but here are some other digital things we need to do.

I'm gonna let you speak to that. And then of course, I got another question, but I want you to at least talk. Give me that, Give me that.

Sammi Bivens: 00:33:02

Well, you know, so social media marketing is a part of your. Should be a part of your digital marketing strategy.

But to your point, people think I'm gonna get my Instagram popping and that's all I need to do do. That's not true.

Because you could go viral and how many people go viral, but they don't have anything on the back end to actually monetize it, to actually send people, you know, so that's where your website. So your website is a part of your digital presence and should be a part of your digital marketing strategy.

Just having something up is a start, but you also want to then think about is it search engine optimized now? Because many people are using AI to, to search and research things, is it AI optimized?

So your digital strategy now goes into all of those things in addition to your social media. Because even now Google can index your social media posts.

So when you're posting on social, are you using keywords, are you using things that can help it to pick up and show up in search engines?

So it's your website and then from there the SEO and AI strategy behind your website and is your social media profiles, it's your Google business profile. Claim that if you have a small business, even if you're not actively looking for reviews, you should but make sure you claim it so no one else does.

But anywhere people can find you online, that should be a part of your digital marketing strategy. And it goes on and on, just depending on where you can be found.

Because right now what we're focused on is trying to make sure our clients are showing up in AI because that's where people are searching.

Or even to my point about your keywords and your captions, because people can search on TikTok, they search on threads, they search on Instagram for answers. So are you searchable on everywhere that can be a digital platform?

ShySpeaks: 00:34:48

I love it and I'm happy we're able to speak to that because I know again, some people like, I'm trying to get my clients to focus further and they don't know how to spend, speak to and help them understand, hey, these are all the other search search engine optimization things that we need to get you do. So you spoke to it quite well.

Another thing you spoke to, well, outside of your strategy, outside of the structure, you talked about just having sustainability and what wasn't sustainable. But one of our other like our S's is like sustainability slash self development. And I want you to.

I don't want to because I have something and I don't want to like. But is there something that you wanted to inquire about?

Because I'm listening to her and I know that it takes something to be this type of digital marketing person. Yes, the self development was there with the entrepreneurial programs, the actual, you know, traditional education.

But I'm sure that there's more that goes into it. What were you thinking about?

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:35:42

Yeah, and I was thinking about her, her framework. Right.

So it's like as you're working with your clients, I know you're, you know, you're working with them specifically, but to my knowledge, you've developed a framework in working with your clients. It's like the four A's or something like that.

Sammi Bivens: 00:35:59

No, no, I don't know. What I don't have.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:36:05

Okay, maybe it was, maybe, maybe, maybe it created like a, it was like awareness.

Sammi Bivens: 00:36:12

Oh, I think you're talking. I think I did a talk one time about that a minute ago. I don't. But I think I did a talk around the four A's and I had, I think I was at Paul Quinn.

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:36:26

Okay. No, I'm saying I thought that was a, I thought that was like a framework that you had that you use with, with your clients and whatnot.

ShySpeaks: 00:36:32

So.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:36:32

But you just, was just a conversation that you had.

Sammi Bivens: 00:36:34

Yeah, that was a topic that I saw.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:36:37

Okay, okay.

ShySpeaks: 00:36:38

And I can see how that would be a question you want to know, because sometimes when people have a method or a framework or stuff like that, that is a part of their sustainability. All right, so my question would be, what are.

If I'm a digital marketing person, what are some of the books that I should be reading or maybe even groups or like things where, where should I be learning about how to advance in specific. In our niche that you guys are, that you're in and you know, digital marketing, marketing, so forth. So it could be a book.

It should be in the community. I don't know. I don't know where all the. I don't know what, I don't know like you said.

And so if somebody is like, I'm just over here looking on AI, but it's like, no, these are some specific things that, that will help you up level over here and that you actually use. Yeah, that helps you develop into this, the fractional CMO that you are today.

Sammi Bivens: 00:37:30

Well, you know, honestly, I work with other digital marketers who are further ahead or right or growing right along alongside me through my association with different organizations like the Goldman Sachs, like Nabo. I've met other women and men who are doing similar work and we kind of form like little. I don't want to say, yeah, that sounds good.

Where we, you know, share tips on like how like I can call up other digital marketing agency owners and say, how are you doing this? Or, or how does this work?

So for me, I would say the most, I'm learning the most from my community, from the people who are actually doing the work, from those who are ahead and those growing alongside me. And then some people may look at that as like, well, is there not competition? It's really not.

Because sometimes they may bring me in on a project, and I'm a subcontractor. We did a nationwide project a couple of months ago with another digital marketing agency where she was the main contractor, I was the sub.

And then who knows when I may get a contract.

And because I have, like, web development and things like that under my umbrella, and someone who doesn't, they can bring me in to do that work and we can capitalize on it together. Or because I'm certified in my business, sometimes I may work with other agencies because if.

Well, back when the certifications were being honored, you know, where I may be certified, they're not, then we can work together to. To secure those contracts.

So I would say where I'm learning the most, if I'm being honest, is in community and with other folks that are doing what I'm doing.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:39:06

No, that's dope. Cause, I mean, you hear a lot about competition. A lot of times a lot of people want to hoard the information, the resources.

But you said you've been able to develop a community or be a part of a community to where you all are helping one another, where it's like, okay, if they eating right and they're not able to do an aspect of it, they're able to bring me in to subcontract. So now we're eating together. Right. I love that.

Because a lot of times, like, that's our goal, and what we're developing here is trying to develop that community piece. Because if one creator win, I think all creators win. Right. So to be able to have that speaks volumes.

And I love that, that you've had that experience.

Sammi Bivens: 00:39:42

Yeah. Relationships.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:39:43

Yeah.

ShySpeaks: 00:39:45

Speaking of our stop.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:39:47

He gave us a hand.

ShySpeaks: 00:39:48

No, he said five minutes.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:39:48

Oh, five minutes. You gotta give another one. You say this is stop.

ShySpeaks: 00:39:54

This is stop.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:39:54

Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Sammi Bivens: 00:39:56

I'm like, you did.

ShySpeaks: 00:39:59

You did. What was the last word you said? Something about community. And on that note of community, I actually want to kind of lean in. Into that.

I want to say shout out to those who are part of the mind of my creative business community so far, like, if you watching these podcasts on the regular, some of you guys were telling me, like, I binged this episode and I watched this episode. Oh, this one was good.

And so now, right now, you all are watching together, but we want you to join in with us and actually be a part of community so you can share and have that exchange and actually have those business connections so that you can have what she talked. She's talking about where you have that alliance where you're able to have that exchange. And one of the things that we've created is the.

The Creative to CEO challenge. When you join the Creative CEO Challenge, you become a part of a group.

In this group, you are actually growing your business, but you're also interacting with one another. And so we highly, highly encourage you to join us on the very next challenge. That should be somewhere length in this.

I just wanted to pause for that cause and say that. Anything else you want to talk about before we wrap things up with Miss Sammy B.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:41:10

Well, no, now, this has been great. I kind of want to know, like, what's next for you? Right. It's like, you know, you're in the space doing these phenomenal things.

I know you said you just use on the news before you came here. Right, Right. So we want to know, like, what's next? Like, what's. What does scaling look like for you at this stage?

Sammi Bivens: 00:41:27

So scaling looks like for me, like, I hope within the next year, my business looks much different than how I know.

ShySpeaks: 00:41:35

I just feel like it's going to be messing up. Sorry, Shaq. Okay, there we go. You said you was like, let me just help.

Sammi Bivens: 00:41:42

I can see.

ShySpeaks: 00:41:44

I was trying to resell this too. Okay. So, yeah.

Sammi Bivens: 00:41:48

But over the next year, like, my goal is to, like, transition. Like, right now, we're honestly serving about 10, maybe 12 clients. And so I really want to scale back on it, actually.

I want to go and focus in on maybe four main clients, big clients, and sustain those relationships throughout the year. Because what I've learned is while we can take on volume, I have the team for it, we have the systems for it.

But I really want to be more impactful on my individual clients. Right. So I want to be able to focus in and really help build the next big thing. Right.

And it's kind of hard to do that when you're kind of here and there.

And I'm like, I have my staff working on this, I'm working on this, but I want to be able to be more present in those situations so that I can help them grow to the next level. So that is really. And then when I do that, I can focus more on my own creative projects and the things.

Because in doing the work that I do, like my own website, I probably shouldn't admit this, but the truth is it's kind of like the beautician who never has her hair done. Because I haven't had a chance to redo my website and make it, you know, because we're so busy working with, with the client.

So I would love to scale back in volume so that I can scale forward and focus on some of my own initiatives and going next level. I had, I had a podcast. I mean, yeah, probably find it somewhere. I got so busy with, you know, my client work.

It's like, and I'm the type of person that I'm going to. People are trusting me with their money and their investment. So I'm not going to fumble that.

I'm not going to make sure you have the best, even if that means my things have to suffer a little bit. So I really want to scale back so I can scale forward.

ShySpeaks: 00:43:32

I love it. I love it too. And I actually want to ask this for someone who's watching this. Like I'm not an inspiring digital marketing person.

I'm not a current digital marketer who's just trying to scale. I'm actually that next big thing. I have this company and I need somebody to come in and do all the digital stuff that she was talking about.

Our social media is already popping but I don't have the things, things that she's talking about. How can they, they're their next big thing. They may be 1 year, 4. How can they join?

We want to make sure we link that here and so that they can in this conversation somewhere so that they can join whatever it is, the proper program or service that you have. What is that that you offer?

Sammi Bivens: 00:44:08

Yeah, so anyone can set up a digital marketing consultation. Let me say that again because what I meant to say, discovery call.

I don't know why I said that, but yeah, I offer a free 15 minute discovery call or a paid hour long consultation. You can find that on my website, digimarketingmaven.com and it's just to start a conversation. Right.

And if you pay for the consultation, if you book with me, we take that off the end proposal. Right. So you get, you don't feel like you're, you know, losing that, that money. We credit it to it. So that's where you can find me.

We offer website design and development, content creation, social media management, email marketing, of course, helping with AI strategy and tools. We'll soon be offering AI agents that we can build for other people. We use them in our business for our clients.

But now I'm like, I could help other people that maybe can't afford to make the investment right now. They can, you know, we can build it for you, and you can take it, and you can do a lot of the things that we're doing once we build it.

So soon to come.

ShySpeaks: 00:45:17

Listen, you heard it here first, the exclusive on the Mind in my creative business podcast. Thank you so much for staying with us. If you tuned in this point all the way to the end, you now have the details on how to be the next big thing.

And then also, I just want to encourage you to like the video, subscribe, hit the thumbnail, you know, all the things. Okay. And make sure you do any of that. Anything else.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:45:39

Ron, listen, you already talked about the challenge. You just asked them to, like, comment, share, subscribe, do the things.

So the only other thing that we have to do is to have them join in and do our mantra.

ShySpeaks: 00:45:51

Yes.

So you've heard us talk, you've heard our guests talk, but we want to make sure you're talking to yourself, because that's a part of self development. Self development matters, as well as structure and strategy. How do we do that? We speak affirmation. And speak.

So we want to say this affirmation out loud. Everybody in the studio, producers and everybody included, we're going to say this. Okay? Y' all ready?

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:46:13

Yes.

ShySpeaks: 00:46:14

You ready? Okay, here we go. All it takes.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:46:18

All it takes.

ShySpeaks: 00:46:18

All it takes is intention, consistency.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:46:22

Consistency.

ShySpeaks: 00:46:22

And laser focus.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr.: 00:46:23

And laser focus.

ShySpeaks: 00:46:25

To mind my creative business.

Sammi Bivens: 00:46:26

To mind my creative business.

ShySpeaks: 00:46:29

And on that note, we out P.