From Beats to The Big Screen: J. Rhodes Talks Sync Licensing and Creative Business Strategies

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:00:00

Welcome to the mind of my creative business podcast. And I am your host, Ron Aaronically.

ShySpeaks [: 00:00:05

Jr. And I'm your host, Shy Speaks. And this is the number one podcast for what?

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:00:11

For creatives to learn strategy, structure and self development.

ShySpeaks [: 00:00:17

Yeah. All at the same time, all in one place. And I am excited because, you know, I got my. Listen, listen. We got a special guest with us. Yes, we always have special guests, but this one is particularly special because I know him personally. He's my friend, my bro in his music thing and this freaking creative entrepreneur stuff, period.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:00:40

Right?

ShySpeaks [: 00:00:41

Introducing none other than J. Rose.

J. Rhodes [: 00:00:44

Give it up for J. Rhodes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Thank y'all for having me, man. Thank y'all for having me.

ShySpeaks [: 00:00:49

Listen, Jay, I met doing things in music and then I was like, man, I will. I think I want to work with him. I think he was like, I think I want to work with her. So it was a mutual thing. We worked together. There's a song that's available out called King and he actually produced it.

J. Rhodes [: 00:01:05

I think it was me. And did Mav co produce it too? Just, you know, Mav.

ShySpeaks [: 00:01:10

Mav co produced it as well. You are absolutely right. So we took them into a room and they just made it right. I said, this is how I want the song to sound. He was like, okay. But he hasn't just worked with me and, you know, other independent artists. He's worked with a number of artists. He has a list of accolades, in fact.

ShySpeaks [: 00:01:30

You just recently got a Grammy.

J. Rhodes [: 00:01:32

Yeah, I was blessed to produce on the three time Grammy award winning Michael Project, Killer Mike. We actually went to the Grammys, got to see him win them in real time. That was cool. Got suited and booted, you know, it was a very cool experience. So that was a blessing. And it's cool the way God brought it because a lot of times you fight so hard for certain things. Thought that we would got that accolade in 2014 with Lecrae. Got a lot of awards, but didn't he.

J. Rhodes [: 00:02:00

Lecrae got in the Grammy for a song, but we didn't get it for the album. Long story with that. But it's cool how guys circled it back nine years later and I got it unexpectedly. So that was. That was a blessing.

ShySpeaks [: 00:02:11

Did you got. Did you guys get a dub with the.

J. Rhodes [: 00:02:13

Yeah, we got a dub. We got a dove. I think he won like, like a Billboard music award. Stellar. It was a lot of things that happened. And getting that dub award was real cool too. It was record breaking at that point. They considered it gospel album you know, gospel rap album.

J. Rhodes [: 00:02:31

It was the first one to be number one on Billboard, if I'm quoting it correctly. Hopefully it should. It's still gold. Hopefully that goes platinum sometime soon. And the cool thing about that album was that it went gold in the time. It was like one of the last albums to me that went gold when it was actual physical sales. Like, people went out and physically copped that album. Now they do it a certain way where it's like streams equal this ratio.

J. Rhodes [: 00:02:54

It's something weird. I don't even know how it's calculated, but shout out to Lecrae and his team at Reach, because they did record breaking things. They hit the pavement and people actually was copping those albums. So it was my first plaque as well.

ShySpeaks [: 00:03:06

First plaque. Okay, so listen, that's just. That's just one but. And we want to talk about production and music production and all of that, but you are not just a producer. You own Vintage Rose production.

J. Rhodes [: 00:03:22

Yes, ma'am.

ShySpeaks [: 00:03:22

Right. And what we try to do here, not we don't try to do what we do here at the mind of our creative business podcast, is we take you behind the brand of. Behind the brands of six, seven and even eight figure entrepreneurs. And so when you layer all of that together, the producer, the vintage roads. Well, what. What makes Vintage Rose so special is it's not just music. He also specializes in film production. So how do you as a producer.

J. Rhodes [: 00:03:48

Venture into film, man? All right, let me try to give the short long version. All right. So when I was in corporate America A while back, DFW Airport, I think it was 2007, I got hired to do to be in the marketing department. And it was for pretty much like a film editing position. The funny thing is, I never had edited film before, but the guy knew I did music, and he said, hey, if you do a music. If you can do music timelines, you can do film timelines. And so I was up there pretty much learning on the job. I got it.

J. Rhodes [: 00:04:27

Ended up leaving that job to pursue music. And I was just doing music, but I still had that skill of film. I think editing is just like beat making almost. It's just like a different version of it. So I felt I was real good at editing a timeline. And then I hooked up with my homeboy from college, Corey Williams, in like 2015, 2016, and he wanted to shoot a documentary, but I was like, man, you know what? Let's shoot a scripted series. And so Corey would do the filming and the editing, but then I would start doing the editing. To speed up the process.

J. Rhodes [: 00:04:59

Process. And so, man, we just hit the ground running. And within eight months of shooting these beats a free the series, we were in the Viacom offices talking to BET about potentially, you know, it, it. It being picked up. It didn't get picked up, but we celebrated that win. We was like, man, we already in the BET offices. And from there I realized that film was my. Was my new passion.

J. Rhodes [: 00:05:23

Like, I think I tell people all the time, and I think people will hear me say this ad nauseam, but it's really the truth. Like, film is the root of my career tree. And I film, but music. And so from music, a lot of branches have grown and film is one of the biggest ones because I feel it's a talent dump. Like, you can put your creative timing in it. You're writing your editing, I direct it, you know, you can write. It's so much thing. So many things that you could put in the film.

J. Rhodes [: 00:05:48

And it's more like a creative marathon. But when you get to the end of it, it really is like, it's the closest me as a man would get to, you know what I'm saying? Labor pains, because there's a lot of stuff that goes into there, a lot of people that have to push it, et cetera. So we did It's a Wonderful Plight that was our first. Me and Corey did a lot of other things before that that were very monumental. But It's a Wonderful Plight was our first feature. It was in USA Today as one of the top films to see of the summer of 2021 as our first film. We went on a big tour that it was even Sway in the Morning talking about this film. And it's real creative.

J. Rhodes [: 00:06:26

And I just think that it's the best way. Instead of like screaming with people in chats and comments and just all of this just so easy to just throw things. I think film is a way for me to really communicate how I feel the right way and just get my messaging and stuff out. So that's how we got into it. And I love it. Like, it's my most favorite thing to do now.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:06:48

Now I have a question. So, you know, as I was listening to you, you said, okay, you was working in corporate America and you got hired in for marketing at Dallas Fort Wayne, right?

J. Rhodes [: 00:07:01

Yeah.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:07:02

Now when you got hired in that position, you knew you were going in to do Feeling like I heard a. I heard a piece that it was because I'm real big on mentorship for sure. Right. So somebody else was like, yo, if you do this. If you have this skill set, you can also do this.

J. Rhodes [: 00:07:21

Yeah, right.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:07:22

So how did you take to that initially? Was it kind of, did you give pushback? Like, nah, I don't really know about that. Or did you trust that person enough to where you was like, okay, let me try this. Cause they saying that I can do this.

J. Rhodes [: 00:07:34

I believed instantly. And I was just so happy. It was almost like, I don't even know if y'all know that meme of that dude looking at all of these wires. I don't know. But anyway, I'll pull it. But he's looking at it like this. Cause he's like, when you lie on your application, I didn't care. Like, at that point, I had left the job.

J. Rhodes [: 00:07:53

Cause I was like, I'm gonna do music full time. But then I had a daughter do, and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna do this music, but I need some money now. So I took to it, and it was a challenge. But it was mainly, like, as somebody at that point that didn't have my college degree in 2006, where they said that the salary was 40,000, I'm like, that was a lot to me back then. And I'm like, shoot for nobody. I was like, man, you know what? I'm going to do it. I'm gonna learn it. And so it was more like, I believed instantly because I always.

J. Rhodes [: 00:08:22

Anything that I want to do, I need to do, I figure it out.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:08:26

And you learned a skill set on somebody else's dime.

J. Rhodes [: 00:08:29

On somebody else's dime. I also. Not only did I learn a skill set on their dime. Shout out, DFW Airport. But they had. Hey, this was back when they had printed CDs. Like, they had the CD machine. I would stay after and print up my music CDs, you know what I'm saying? I put them in the cases I would be working on Final Cut Pro.

J. Rhodes [: 00:08:51

And then I learned marketing. Like, even how I brand, I brand very. Even though it's creative, it's a very corporate type of thing with consistency. Certain things have to look like this and do like this. And I got that branding aspect from working in the marketing department. Of course, it's not as stringent. Is that the word? But it's not as strict. Let's just say strict.

J. Rhodes [: 00:09:10

Stringent. There we go. It's not stringent, and it's not as strict. But at the same time, it's a lot of things that I learned from that as well. So, yeah, DFW propelled me to do what I wanted to do. And another thing, like, I tell this story, and we're gonna get to that. But in my first book, I tell this story, but come on first, because the second one is coming. Cause the second one is on the way.

J. Rhodes [: 00:09:32

But I used to go to DW Airport, and it was cool, but I knew that music and arts and working for myself is what I wanted to do. So I would go. And I didn't put pictures up of my kids and nothing. I didn't want to make it too much like home. People like, hey, well, you know, I'm like, hey, I'm not comfortable. I'm not. It's cool in this office, but I'm not comfortable here. And I used to look out and I used to see planes, you know, flying by my window in DFW Airport.

J. Rhodes [: 00:09:58

And I was like, God, one day I'm gonna be on one of those planes. I'll be on one of those planes. And so then I left the job, you know, just. It was time to leave a lot of friction. But then I remember coming back to DFW Airport to go to LA and realizing, like, one of those planes that I saw, you know, And I tell that story a lot, too, but I think it's profound every time, you know?

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:10:17

Yeah.

ShySpeaks [: 00:10:17

So, okay, so first of all, you said you already. You just kind of dishes your life and you're so used to it, so you just rolling right through it.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:10:24

Yeah, yeah.

ShySpeaks [: 00:10:24

But when we talked about venturing into film, you said, well, we did this first series, right? So it's multiple series, y'all. So you did. You said, these Beats Ain't Free, the series right now. These Beats Ain't Free is a book.

J. Rhodes [: 00:10:39

Yeah, it started as a book, Started.

ShySpeaks [: 00:10:41

As a book, and then it turned into a series. And then you and your buddy, y'all filmed this. So what was that series?

J. Rhodes [: 00:10:47

Okay, it was. It started as a book, just like a hundred page kind of thing to help people make their passion their paycheck and, you know, in a short read, and people, like all over the world about that. And that's a blessing. That's a blessing. But from that branding, it came to a clothing line. And then I promise you, Before Atlanta is one of my favorite shows, but even before Atlanta hit, and I'm pretty sure Childish Gambino had the idea a long time before that, too. But before anybody even knew of Atlanta, these Beats Ain't Free was kind of like in that vein, you know what I mean? We did it on a budget. We was running Gun and learning Things, but we still said, nah, we're going to do this scripted series.

J. Rhodes [: 00:11:24

And it was pretty much about the life of a producer trying to get paid, trying to navigate. And we wrote, man, I used to write an episode almost a week, and then I used to try to send it to the actors, and they would not really remember. So at that point, a lot of times we would kind of have an idea, but it was, like, scripted in the sense of what we were trying to convey, but we would just be going off the cuffs. And that made it cool, too. So it was cool. We learned a lot on that show and it propelled us to other things. I think. I think I'm gonna revisit that show at some point because I think it really got some legs.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:11:59

No, sounds like a dope idea. Like, I would. I would watch it.

J. Rhodes [: 00:12:02

Yeah, yeah.

ShySpeaks [: 00:12:03

You know, says the producer.

J. Rhodes [: 00:12:05

Right.

ShySpeaks [: 00:12:06

I think another thing that it produced was the House of Beats.

J. Rhodes [: 00:12:10

House of Beats, man.

ShySpeaks [: 00:12:11

So tell them what is House of Beats?

J. Rhodes [: 00:12:13

House of Beats is the first you say, look at the camera, where you gotta miss. It's the first and at this point, the only reality TV show for music producers. Now, House of Beats came because it just was a lot of bad reality shows to me, all negative, just, you know, bs, women fighting, and just, you know, and so if that's the entertainment, I wanted to do something more along the lines of the Voice, more positive and being entertaining in that way. So it was super cool. We shot season one on a whim, and people loved it. We partnered with Machine Masters for the first series season, and now season two will be coming. We shot season two, like in 2021, and it hasn't come out yet because I just got caught up in a lot of stuff, personal things and a lot of business things, but finished officially with the business on King of Dallas. So now that that's done, now I can really double back and get season two out.

J. Rhodes [: 00:13:07

Because once season two was difficult for various reasons, but once I get that out to the people, then House of Beats will. Now that we know the formula because we tried out those new cameras and it's just a lot of stuff. But anyway, getting to the point, season two will be dropping this year, and then we'll keep those other seasons rolling too.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:13:26

So now I have a question in regards to both of your projects, right? These Beats ain't free. And then House of Beats, how did you go about funding those projects? Were there sponsors? Did you come out of pocket? Was it no budget? Was it low budget? Like, kind of talk about that? A little bit.

J. Rhodes [: 00:13:45

House of Beats was, let me see, low budget. We had, I mean, very low budget. I think it's cool when you most of the time you're paying stuff, you're paying for the skill set. And me and Corey, my team, we had skill like, you know, from being the host to editing it to, you know, having the talent or whatever. So with House of Beats and these Beats ain't free, the skill set was there and we would, you know, find locations and do stuff. So those were pretty, pretty, pretty low budget, self funded, you know, in a sense for the most part.

ShySpeaks [: 00:14:18

You mentioned partner on machine. That's a particular.

J. Rhodes [: 00:14:21

Yeah. Machine Masters is a maschine is a native instruments. Not instruments, but it's a tool. But it's Machine Masters. They're a channel on YouTube. I partnered with the guy AG, you know, cool guy, and we partnered on season one. He's doing his thing still now, but I think we went a different direction with the show and he's still doing his thing. So now like season two, we're probably looking for more like potentially network may put it on YouTube, but I definitely, season three and beyond will be putting it on network TV.

J. Rhodes [: 00:14:52

You know, one of the. One of the streaming. So it's just like figuring that stuff out.

ShySpeaks [: 00:14:56

So that was a good question because the thing is, I'm doing these creative things, but how am I making a living off of it, right? So how am I monetizing it? How am I scaling it from just making a living to making six figures and seven figures? And how does all of that come about?

J. Rhodes [: 00:15:12

For sure?

ShySpeaks [: 00:15:12

And the thing I love about your story in particular is because while you're venturing into film and starting doing these series, you're still like an actual music producer and getting some pretty notable placements that are helping out with royalties and so forth and so on. So now I want to ask you this. Now knowing what you know about putting out series and all that kind of stuff, how would you fund a film? What would be the best way to get a film funded or a series funded? On what?

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:15:43

You know.

J. Rhodes [: 00:15:44

Okay, well, it's a lot of different ways to do it. I will say the way that you can control is to start a crowdfunding campaign for your movie because people believe. And I had a lot of brand loyalty because I always delivered on stuff. Like I always had my projects, whatever it was coming to actualization. So people were like, hey, if you're doing this, I'm going to support it. You know, we show them a trailer like, hey, this is what we create and we may need this to help. So but for it's a wonderful play, my good friend April Patterson. Patterson, she was also an actor in the movie, but she, she helped, she believed in the film and she, you know, I'm saying, put a lot towards it.

J. Rhodes [: 00:16:24

So a lot of the funding initially the 8, $500 that we raised on Seed and Spark, which is a crowdfunding campaign, it's a crowdfunding platform, was for like post production and just like we actually used a lot of that money to buy new cameras for the next film. And so we raised also through Seed and Spark, about $30,000 for King of Dallas, which is pretty good for an indie film because we work wonders with a little bit. I think it's a wonderful play. As good as that film did. It's on Amazon prime now. We did that film with no more than 5,000 and so King Godallus, 30,000 of raising funds and then I think another extra about 20,000 in, you know, donations from producers. And like the whole point of King of Dallas, we said we were going to make a million dollar film on an independent budget and I think we really did that.

ShySpeaks [: 00:17:22

So, okay, so funding is one thing and then revenue. So a little bit different here. So just to clarify for sure, you would raise the money for the funds that have the budget through crowdfunding and it sounds like you were saying some investors.

J. Rhodes [: 00:17:37

Personal investors, yes.

ShySpeaks [: 00:17:38

So there's that. And then you make the film and then at some point you put it out and then that's where the. We hope that let's say we took a hundred thousand, made a film or like you said, 50,000. And then how do we then get the revenue from it?

J. Rhodes [: 00:17:53

Okay, with film is three ways. Like you got transactional, they call it tvod and then you got transactional. Tvod, transactional video on demand, I think. And if I'm wrong, I'm close in the ballpark. But if I'm saying the acronym wrong and you know, I think people can research it, but tvod, which is stuff like, you know, let's say Amazon, but people have to pay a fee for it, you know, that's kind of like that. And that's cool too to kind of especially start off because I think a lot of people that would want to acquire your film, like maybe even if it gets officially on Amazon on Demand or like Netflix or something, they to me, and from what I've heard, they look at that more like it's in the theater because everybody can't see it, it's like, it's almost like that people have to pay to see it. So that's different. You still can, we still can pay you to have that film on a platform.

J. Rhodes [: 00:18:47

So you got T Vod and it's pretty much like you put it up on a platform like Amazon. Amazon takes their fee, but if a million people buy it, you get, you know what I'm saying, half of that money. You know, that's just straight up how it is. So that's, you know, T Vi just straight up like, hey, we doing this? Here's the film. And so that's the first way. The. I'm gonna go third and I'm gonna come back to the most elusive way, you know, said that what you really want and what I have yet to get yet. But we're, we're gonna get that through continuing to make films.

J. Rhodes [: 00:19:17

The third way is avod, I think that's advertising based. So that's like your to be and stuff like that. And people can say whatever they want about to be. I do get, you know, I'm saying some of the stigma, but if you're doing it right, just the fact that two people are consuming stuff and they'll go watch it and it's more like you see ads come up, so you get paid every time your ads come up. So that's, you know what I'm saying. So you got transactional and for the third, when you got advertise based, there's all these other platforms to where when your ads play, you get your money that way. And then the second is subscription based like when somebody pays you a flat out fee to have it subscribed to. So we had that on.

J. Rhodes [: 00:20:01

It's a wonderful play. It was a smaller platform. I think they paid like about $20,000 to acquire for a year for independent film that you only put probably 5,000 into you already getting $20,000 is getting your money back and more there. So even though it wasn't the biggest deal, it still was a blessing to do that. So basically the two is getting something like let's say just in the best, one of the best case scenarios, HBO Max pays you $4 million to acquire King of Dallas. So now you got your four meal and then you have that banked and then you still maybe have your transactional for the people who probably paid for before or however that works. But you know, and then, but the thing about it, the way you probably would do that is you wouldn't put it on an ad based thing until later. You Know, because why would somebody go to Tubi and HBO Max to see your film? So it's more like the ad based platforms become.

J. Rhodes [: 00:21:04

That's why they come like about two years after and then you still can make money on advertising.

ShySpeaks [: 00:21:10

Are these gems or not?

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:21:11

No, definitely, definitely. And he says something that's key where he mentioned the word brand loyalty. Right. So there was things that you did prior to you crowdfunding to where you built the brand. Right. And you had people that were used to your brand.

J. Rhodes [: 00:21:29

Yes.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:21:30

That was expecting things. And now that you're saying, okay, I'm working on a project, you gave them an opportunity to partner with you in a sense to be able to help fund it. So I think that's key because we really don't hear a lot about that. Like people, they do these crowdfund things but they don't got no, no, no, no audience. They don't have a fan base, they don't have anybody that. You know what I'm saying?

ShySpeaks [: 00:21:52

So they haven't built up equity.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:21:54

Exactly.

ShySpeaks [: 00:21:56

You haven't built that trust. So in business, outside of the creative entrepreneur business, people, they always tell them entrepreneurs that people buy from who they know like and trust in some kind of way because creatives think they're going to buy from people who are highly creative. They still need to know you.

J. Rhodes [: 00:22:14

Yeah.

ShySpeaks [: 00:22:14

They seeming to like you and they need to trust you.

J. Rhodes [: 00:22:17

Amen.

ShySpeaks [: 00:22:17

So what you were talking about was because of what I have put out, that people knew who I was. They like the kind of stuff that I put out because it's usually, even if it's a low budget, I have high skill so it looks quality. And then lastly it is that they, they trust it, they trust that I'm going to deliver. I'm not going to say hey Mary, put this out and then it doesn't come. Even if it takes me a while to put something out, they know I'm working on something. The point is it's coming out.

J. Rhodes [: 00:22:43

It's gonna drop. Yeah, it's gonna drop.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:22:46

And I don't, I don't do pre orders to this day because there's been some people I didn't did some pre order stuff. That project ain't seen a lot of day. They didn't got my money. So the fact that you said like, no, they, they were able to trust me and that's how we were able to raise this fund. And you just didn't do it once, but you did it twice.

J. Rhodes [: 00:23:04

Yes.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:23:05

So that speaks, that speaks volumes to, you know, being able to do that.

J. Rhodes [: 00:23:08

And I think it's just the person you are too. Like, not. Not that I'm flawless by any standard, but, you know, you have integrity in your art, have integrity in who you are. And I really care about the people who lift me up and been blessing me to have a career in art all these years. And I really, I do it because I love it and I love my expression. And so, you know, you have that backing. And the people, my core base, they're like the battery pack that gets me to these things. They really, they really show love and I, you know, show love back to them.

J. Rhodes [: 00:23:37

So.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:23:37

So we hear you, you know, you. We're talking to you as a producer, but you've mentioned a lot of things in regards to putting on production.

J. Rhodes [: 00:23:47

Right?

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:23:47

So there's you, the producer, but then it seems like you as the production company. So can you kind of let us know, like, what that difference is? Because we have a lot of people that are producers, like myself included.

J. Rhodes [: 00:23:59

Right.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:23:59

But some people don't understand, like, they just, they're focusing on, I'm a producer, I'm a producer, I'm a producer. And we're not saying there's nothing wrong with that. Right, but what's that difference between being solely a producer to actually having a production company?

J. Rhodes [: 00:24:12

It's the business aspect, whether it's music production, like knowing your splits and knowing your contracts and stuff. I have people that help me, but I had a bad manager situation, and it was the best thing God could do for me because it was like, man, the worst thing you can do is have a bad A and R, a bad manager or a bad publicist, somebody. When you realize I'm paying you or you're taking a percentage or you're in my career and you're not doing anything. So you start learning these skills and wearing these hats. But with music, it's sometimes just really understanding the business and process and how you get paid and what's the best things to do. And sometimes. A lot of times I just answer emails. A lot of times I'm just sending stuff out to companies.

J. Rhodes [: 00:24:56

I'm doing a lot of that, that legwork because I. I'm in the stages where even now I wear most of the hats in my company. Even just the story about why it took King of Dallas so long to finally and praise God. It's funny. Like, we just got the official date today, September 9th. You know what I'm saying? It'll be the first official release. But we were just dealing with, like, I got Blessed to have a pretty good distribution company. Our first go round, they did a lot of things for us, but it's a lot of incompetence going around, like on the distribution side.

J. Rhodes [: 00:25:30

And so the thing is, is that I really, really, really. If you look at your creative projects as your children, I felt that King of Dallas was at least a scholarship child, you know, like. Like, even if it's a community college, I felt it needed a scholarship. And that scholarship. Scholarship was. Even though Tubi is a wonderful platform, I felt that we needed a subscription deal. I felt like we put enough into it to do that. So I had all of the hats, all of the creative hats.

J. Rhodes [: 00:25:56

But the only thing I was missing, even though I was an acute businessman, I didn't know much about the distribution side. So you put your film or your baby in the hands of these people in hopes that they will do or can do something a little bit extra. And I had a bad experience this time with King of Dallas. They were just not treating it like the film. It was. It was. It was disrespectful. And it was really.

J. Rhodes [: 00:26:18

Just to be honest, it was. It was in. I was noticing an incompetent. So being a distribution, the company is like, okay, let me work out something like, hey, you. In my film back, it was. They was. Both of the companies were cool enough to be like, hey, let's just wash our hands with each other. But I did in a couple of weeks what I couldn't get them to do in months, you know, and it was just because I said, okay, let me learn this.

J. Rhodes [: 00:26:41

If I'm gonna be that company, I'm gonna do, you know, my own qc. I'm gonna invest in it. I'm gonna talk to the people. I'm gonna do that. And I did that same thing with music. That's the only reason I'm a music producer now. I wanted to be an artist lost producer. I'm like, well, I need to learn how to make beats.

J. Rhodes [: 00:26:55

And that was in college. That's the only reason that I record now, because I'm like, okay, now I'm producing an artist without a studio. Let me learn how to do this. And just all of the things. And then. So whether it's so. Yeah, that's.

ShySpeaks [: 00:27:09

Because really what you're basing. Your answer to the question is the difference in a producer and a production company is the ability for that particular producer to go and learn and acquire other skills that then. Skills that stem into having a company. And you just happen to increase your skill Value so that you don't necessarily have to outsource everything. Some of you did. Yeah, it didn't go well. Obviously you can write scripts, you have to maybe outsource. You can't hold all the cameras.

ShySpeaks [: 00:27:37

Somebody else has.

J. Rhodes [: 00:27:37

Yeah, for sure.

ShySpeaks [: 00:27:38

Somebody else has to do the photography, somebody else has to do the lighting. You know, we know that you're saying that, but ultimately you're saying what I love and that is there is an education piece, there's a piece of self development that has to happen for creative entrepreneurs to move over from being a freelancer, so to speak, and then having a company and even knowledgeable enough to know that when I'm putting my. Some, my project in the hands of someone else because this is part of the company, I have to then bring in another company to know if it's not being handled.

J. Rhodes [: 00:28:10

Yeah, right. That, that takes something just to know you have. You have to. Yeah, it's an energy in your spirit when you're talented and competent in things because you put in the work. When you know somebody is just not. It's like a relationship. I think you can either hope that the person would change and be insane or you're like, hey, I've seen enough and just have that, you know, that discernment to say, hey, I think I can do this.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:28:35

But. And that's just so, that's so key.

J. Rhodes [: 00:28:38

Right.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:28:39

Because a lot of times we are looking for other people to do everything else. Yeah, right. And that comes a place where we need to delegate.

J. Rhodes [: 00:28:48

Yeah, right.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:28:48

But in your opinion, you like, okay, I delegated. They wasn't doing it right. So I had to take it back, but I had to learn. So I know what to look for. So I think even with your next project, it's like, okay, if I do have to have somebody else do it because I can't do everything. At least I know now what to expect look for because I did it myself.

J. Rhodes [: 00:29:05

Yeah.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:29:05

I just didn't give it to you and let you do it and then you come back to me and no, I didn't accept that. So now. Yeah, so now moving forward, it's like, no, I know what to do. I'm going to look for and I can say yay or nay to this or that or to this person or that person. So no, that's, that's you.

J. Rhodes [: 00:29:19

Yeah. No losses. Just, just. No, no. The only layout, the only Ls are learned lessons. You know what I'm saying? So it's like now I've been through that and now I Know you know what I'm saying now? So you just picked up a skill. So.

ShySpeaks [: 00:29:31

All right, so you, you've talked about things from an overarching point of view. And I really hope people who are music producers are ready for this next question. But I want to go back. For those who are aspiring film producers or actually emerging film producers. You need to learn how to raise the budget, but then you also need to learn how to create the revenue. Yeah, sometimes people just say, okay, I got enough for a budget because it's just something I want to do. This is my passion. And as long as I just make enough money to do the project, that's enough.

ShySpeaks [: 00:30:02

But what it really is not right? It's really not like it's actually, I can make $2 million off this film, even if I make a million dollars off the film. But I took, I raised the budget of about $50,000. And then I'm gonna go to a HBO, I'm gonna go to whoever and say, look what I have. Can you, you want to subscribe to this and put this on your platform? Your, your viewers will be highly entertained and educated or whatever, whatever their goals are from this. And so that's what you were saying. Whether it was Avod, Z Vibe or subscription. The point is, you know, you always know where the revenue comes from. I'm asking you about the budget, but you know where the revenue comes from.

ShySpeaks [: 00:30:41

And I just feel like creatives need to understand that. Like they know at first they're struggling with the budget, but then it's like even after you have the budget, it would, it wouldn't. It doesn't bother you to come up with 50,000 because, you know, on the other end, at worst, I'm probably gonna get half a million.

J. Rhodes [: 00:30:57

Yeah.

ShySpeaks [: 00:30:57

And it's gonna all pay off. That's, that's cool. Now let's flip over from the film side back to the music side. When it comes to music, how do you make money as a producer?

J. Rhodes [: 00:31:10

Right.

ShySpeaks [: 00:31:11

You can just give me a couple ways.

J. Rhodes [: 00:31:12

How do you make money as a music producer? You have an advance. And a lot of this stuff has changed. A lot of them is still there. But I'm just giving the ways, like you have a label advance to where. Let's just say if I'm working. When I did a Beat for the Game for Interscope, it was a $15,000 advance. I mentioned that advance because it's one of them. It was one of them kind of old school industry advances that really aren't prevalent anym.

J. Rhodes [: 00:31:42

And it was three people that produced on that. So we split that three ways. But it was 5,000 to me up front. And so that's that it's an advance and it's an advance on payment. So after they recoup that advance, then you'll start getting your mechanical royalty payments. That were a lot easy to calculate mechanical royalty payments then because most of it was just actually physical sales. Now we got this. So some of it is all in shambles, but then I still get.

J. Rhodes[: 00:32:10

I'm getting mechanical royalties now for the Killer Mike album pretty strongly because he sells a lot of records, you know, and that's cool. So you got those type of things. And whoever sells records, you know, you get your mechanical royalties. Second. So that's the second. Third you have, man, you got your sound exchanges and your stuff like that. They give you your money and you still got your streaming revenues, which I mean for artists like Taylor Swift. Swift or Plentiful, but for a lot of artists it just.

J. Rhodes [: 00:32:40

And some people like, you know, if they release a whole lot of songs, it's like compound interest and you know, they, they. I'm not saying everybody does awful with streaming, but, you know, until I just start releasing a lot of music upon a lot of music and then streaming, my streaming dollars will be, you know, next to none. And then. But for me, the most money I made. And there's other ways too. The most money that I've made is from sync got like welcome to America has synced so many times. And the Killer Mike yes song has a lot of syncs too. But welcome to America first got exposed to the world of sync.

J. Rhodes [: 00:33:23

It almost got used in the film Selma. But Common and John Legend, they made that glory song at the last minute and took our Oscar. Shame on y'all. But, but so, so, so that's. I started knowing the world to sing. But it's been. Welcome to America has been in movie trailers, commercials. It was even on Democratic National Convention.

J. Rhodes [: 00:33:44

I think the latest big time movie trailer it was in was the One Night in Miami. Regina King directed a film and that Amazon broke us off of that in a major way. Sync is beautiful where there's commercials or anything else. And the Killer Mike yes song, it should be in a cool documentary soon. And it. I think it may be picked up in the Bel air Series Season 3. We don't know yet. Looking kind of dim, but it might.

J. Rhodes [: 00:34:12

So it's like. But sink money is the best money because it's one of the last forms of money that ain't funny money and it's like just, I want to get these placements with artists, and that's cool. But when you get. Especially since I self publish, like, you got Sony hitting me up, NBC hitting me up, Peacock, all kind of companies, but it's always cool to see them hitting you up on behalf of your song. And with these either, you know, five to six figure, you know, pretty much, you know, like, just these deals that can go down, sometimes they don't go down. And it used to be gut wrenching to me, but now it's just part of the game. But sometimes sync money is the best, most beautiful money that there is in music.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:34:55

Now with. With that sync money, that. That business model for sync, because you. You've talked about a few different things and for each thing has its own separate business model. So for that business model for sync, in. In your experience, was that something that you were intentional about or did it just kind of stumble? I don't say stumble across it, but yeah, this one, I feel better world right now. Did they just stumble across it or how did. How did you get into that sync gang?

J. Rhodes [: 00:35:20

Well, I initially signed a deal with S1, if you're not familiar, but he's real, real dope producer here. And they pretty much just put me on to a lot of stuff. And I learned a lot from that deal and understanding what was what. And then from that, like, it was sync that pursued my R songs because they were prominent songs that people really wanted to listen to. And then you get even more money with that. But then I started learning more about, like. Because I think DJ Jazzy Jeff says, you don't want to die empty. Like.

J. Rhodes [: 00:35:53

And I say, and I'm going somewhere with this, in a sense that on every music producer or musician's hard drive, you have millions of dollars worth of stuff. And so it's just like I start figuring out, like, man, this song is collecting dust. And then my niece, she started. She started a sink company, and then there was other companies. And so instead of having. Then I started seeking sync when I'm like, I got all of this music that I need to find a place for. So initially it came to me, but then after that, I also started saying, hey, well, here's a bundle of songs. It's 15 of them.

J. Rhodes [: 00:36:26

I mean, maybe we can work a deal for $15,000, you know, just like using stuff that instead of collecting dust, it can collect funds. So, yes, seeking sync is also a thing to do.

ShySpeaks [: 00:36:37

I like what you said about seeking sync with stuff that you already have as well, because a lot of times they don't want lyrics on the song for some of the things that are in sync. So when we say sync, we're talking about, for those who may not know, we're talking about putting the music in film and TV and so which includes commercial and other like video on demand type of stuff that some people are just using for internal corporate videos. But they want to put the music on there. There are so many reasons and ways why they want music and sometimes they just want the instrumental. And a lot of producers don't realize that these instrumentals could be seen somewhere in some kind of film and then they could be just getting paid every aspect to be watched. And so I like that you mentioned that. I also like the fact that Sync is now one of the last. Would you say last Monday is not funny money.

ShySpeaks [: 00:37:30

And I think that's good for independent artists because independent artists can now start tapping in with producers who they wouldn't otherwise be able to tap in with. If that artist says, hey, I have some kind of sync situation going on. If I'm coming to you and I'm letting you know, like, yeah, I'm signed to this company or I have the Sync publishing deal of some sort, there's a high chance that whatever I have is going to get produced or I'm coming to you, we're making something, forcing you're more likely to, to work with say independent artist who doesn't have that $15,000 advance because we can get this funded later on through the single situation. So I like that for, for independent artists and producers to be able to collaborate even without that label. Front end.

J. Rhodes [: 00:38:13

Definitely.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:38:14

Definitely.

ShySpeaks [: 00:38:14

Yeah. Okay, so I have to ask a question because this has probably been perfect for Run. Run loves talking about the strategy behind all things. And so he's really probably like, yeah, I love talking about the systems and the process that goes into things. And so before we get out of here, I want to ask you a couple of questions about some of the systems and some of the processes and some of the tools that you need in what you do. Right. So let's start. Since we're talking about music, let's talk about music we already know you need.

ShySpeaks [: 00:38:44

I don't know. What, what's this?

J. Rhodes [: 00:38:46

What's the da Logic for me? Logic for me, man. I love it, man. It's just creative and free flowing. I use machine native instruments then kind of for mostly my drums and stuff like that. A lot of virtual instruments, a lot of people are using like splice loops, etcetera. Etc and that's cool. I don't mind just, just the Internet and stuff. I think especially a lot of young producers and stuff.

J. Rhodes [: 00:39:11

For people in general, it's been major hits made off those loops. But I love Contact because I like cinematic sounds and things that like it's all about sound selection. So with Contact, like I don't care what loop you find even if you're a billboard number one. Like if I get a, an instrument that's 300 gigabytes, it's gonna be a little bit more umph to it, you know, and like it's cinematic and acquired sound real and stuff like that. So that's me. I love, I love finding sounds like that. But yes, I'm pretty much streamlined with it. But the main thing, logic is the center for everything.

J. Rhodes [: 00:39:53

Everything, you know, comes through that. So I love logic.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:39:57

Now that's from a creative standpoint, right? So these are your creative tools. But then when we talk about like your business tools, what are some of the things that you know as a producer in order for you to. Whether it's generate a lead or nurture a relationship with artists or a sync company or whatever the case may be. What are some of the things, the tools or software or things like that that you use for the business side?

J. Rhodes [: 00:40:20

The business side, I stay in my. Let's start with email. I can draft. I think I'm the best email draft that this world has ever seen. I can read you nice. I can ask for a certain thing, I can do it, whatever. I stay in my Gmail real time tough. I follow, I think as far as software, it's really just following up on things.

J. Rhodes [: 00:40:42

Like my email is tough. It's the follow up and then it's really the branding strategy like the if you build it, they will come strategy to be ready to have a. I need to update my site. But a good website is cool. But as far as tools, man, I will say my email and for my organizational tool, I'm a big calendar person and I hope this is going along with tools but it may not seem like that today because I was late. Because I was late. I didn't know but I'm typically a real. I'm a very.

J. Rhodes [: 00:41:15

That calendar, like my eye calendar, it syncs to my phone, to this, to the that. So it's like that really helps organization. You have to be organized in this. You have to be. And I'm like I said, I'm an all over the place person because I do so much stuff and I miss a lot of things, but for the most part, like that ical is big and it syncs to my phone, et cetera. So that's, that's actually, I'm really going through the tools that I use. They may seem minimal, but they, they really help. And then it's a, it's an app on.

J. Rhodes [: 00:41:49

I'm big Apple person you can see. But I think it's numbers. Like when I'm doing a chart or doing something like that or making an invoice, I do numbers. I used to do something called FreshBooks but then they, they stopped being free. Like I guess. So then I went to numbers and I get it. But numbers work.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:42:10

Numbers is the equivalent for those who don't know to Microsoft. What is it? The spreadsheet?

ShySpeaks [: 00:42:15

Excel.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:42:16

Excel. So it's equivalent to Excel for those.

J. Rhodes [: 00:42:18

The Apple version don't do Apple. That's the Apple version.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:42:20

So. Okay, keep going.

ShySpeaks [: 00:42:21

Yeah.

J. Rhodes [: 00:42:21

And keynote everything. I'm big. My keynote presentations when I have to like speak or put something together for like if I'm trying to get a grant. Like, I think keynote is killing PowerPoint. Like must have be sliding in all nights. And this is the business side. Like I love, I love Keynote. I love a lot of Apple products and sometimes as much as I create, sometimes I'm sitting just creating like graphics, whether it's not the biggest on Photoshop, but I can use that a little bit.

J. Rhodes [: 00:42:49

Definitely staying in like my Final Cut Pro and stuff, doing my advertisements and trailers and stuff. But yeah, I think I just named the tools and I hope I'm not missing anything and I hope I'm kind of giving you the answers to your questions, but these are the actual kind of tools that in my mind right now that I know I use on a regular basis your go to.

ShySpeaks [: 00:43:11

Okay. So do you have situations where you're tapped in to produce something for said artists that you now have to contract other producers to help out with certain aspects of it? Do you do any of that?

J. Rhodes [: 00:43:25

Sometimes. And it's typically like more I'm the type that I'm, I can, I can play keys for production, but I'm not like you wouldn't want me to play live. I'm not like a keyboard player. So sometimes you do recruit your friends, you know, to come play some keys just because I know exactly what I want most of the time or how I want it to sound. But it's like for me to do it, it's going to take forever. Sometimes you want that, that feel. So I contract the keyboard player or just I got. It's good to have musician friends because a lot of times the problem is if you.

J. Rhodes [: 00:43:57

And if you have brand loyalty, they know that eventually something's going to stick somewhere. It's tough to always. Unless you just got huge budgets. Not that people don't deserve to get paid, but you got to have. It's good to have a friendship knowing that you guys are working together and everybody's going to get paid once something happens, because it's tough to be like, hey, well, you know, such and such. You know, I'm gonna pay you this for the bass, but it's like about 15 tracks that haven't released yet, you know, so it's good to have musician friends that understand your work and understand that once the track pops, it's gonna do some stuff because it's good to have that rapport and build up that catalog. But lots of times I got good, talented musician friends, and sometimes the joint goes. And even the joint, if it hasn't went, they know that, like, it's.

J. Rhodes [: 00:44:45

Something's going to happen with it.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:44:46

So that relationship building is huge. Knowing that, like you said, you've built that trust, that loyalty. So it's like when I eat.

J. Rhodes [: 00:44:53

Yeah, we going to eat. You know what I'm saying?

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:44:55

We all eat. So that's.

J. Rhodes [: 00:44:56

No, that's.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:44:57

That's. That's big. I like that.

ShySpeaks [: 00:44:59

So I would love to know if it's. If it's any. If it's pretty much the same or different for the film side of your vintage company as far as how you. Because there's a lot more people involved, right? You got. There's actors, there's this. That. How do you.

J. Rhodes [: 00:45:15

Yeah.

ShySpeaks [: 00:45:15

Do something to. I hope y'all not just having no text message big thing with all the actors.

J. Rhodes [: 00:45:20

Like, it's something called. And man, with King of Dallas, it's going to be totally different. King of Dallas may be the hardest film that I ever will produce due to this. It'll be films that are bigger with bigger budget, with. It'll be films that are bigger than it, but we'll have a bigger budget, we'll have more people in place. I don't think it will ever be as tough to do that, to like, have an independent film where things have to be, you know, the continuity got to be right because it's post apocalyptic, et cetera. But yeah, you got. It was at least about 170 people that touched King of Dallas in some way.

J. Rhodes [: 00:45:52

So, yeah, like, the actors. A lot of the core actors got paid, but a Lot of the extras, you know, did it just because they wanted their credits. A lot of people really, you know what I'm saying? Believe in me. And they was like, hey, we know that the money is coming. You know what I'm saying? But a lot. A lot of the cast on this particular one, because, yeah, we raised the budget, but I'm telling you, just learning Mo. That's why we need sponsors. Tens of thousands of dollars minimum.

J. Rhodes [: 00:46:16

Went on feeding people every day. And then you really. Because you have that big cash. So we did the best we could. $50,000 for the film that we shot is not really a lot of money. And luckily, like, we really have. We were blessed to have it, but that we barely made it with that. And luckily we had the skills to do the actual work because that would have been hundreds of thousands.

J. Rhodes [: 00:46:38

But yeah, it's the same thing. It's the same thing. Like, you pay. Yeah, it's like. It's like favors paying. Just figuring it out. Figuring out it's the same thing. To answer your question quickly, so earlier.

ShySpeaks [: 00:46:48

You talked about being able to have a placement with the game. You talked about having a placement on Killer Mike's record. You talked about having a placement on the phrase record. And I'm sure there are some. Quite a few other that. I'm not listening. I know, I know there are others, right? How do you get those type of clients and then how do you retain them so that next time they get ready to do album, at least they know.

J. Rhodes [: 00:47:11

Yeah, man, the game is really funny. A lot of retention, especially, like, I'm blessed and I'm like, I'm an OG in the game doing my thing, but. And even my level, there's not a lot of people that reach. But then it's really levels. And a lot of times retention is not even based off doing the things that you're supposed to do. Like. Like, even with Lecrae, to be honest, like, I think we have. I started one of his biggest grossing records.

J. Rhodes [: 00:47:39

And I don't really have an end to Lecrae like that. I got that, you know, that connection from S1. And it's more like you would hope that, hey, you know, we got this welcome to America record. It's hidden still to this day. But it's not. It's you. It's not really even like that. Like a lot of times, like if you're alchemist to certain people, you got.

J. Rhodes [: 00:47:58

It's a certain level where you can do that. So it's like you. I think me and Talib he, he understood, he really dug my sound and he would come back to the well a little bit, A little bit with Royce. Even though we didn't get other records, I went down to work with Royce again definitely right now. Intention, what's the five? Sorry.

ShySpeaks [: 00:48:21

So it may not have the enroll with the artist, but maybe following up with that.

J. Rhodes [: 00:48:24

A and R. Yeah, follow you just the best you can do is really follow up. That's all I can say is just follow up. But I really will. Don't get disheartened. Even if. Because it's all about. It's not even about your talent.

J. Rhodes [: 00:48:35

A lot of times it's about your relationship. And you can't force a relationship. You can just make a hit, be a part of it and just hope that the person recognizes that, hey, I got more. And it's not always like that, but it's not a lot of times you just got to do your due diligence and it's not your fault if you don't work with it again. Because the blessing with me is like a lot of times I don't even have, even with top artists, I haven't had the blessing of getting in, locking in in the studio and doing more. But my sound is so strong that another one gonna come. You know what I'm saying? Like, and so but you still, it is just do your best. And a lot of times, as long as you did your best, the retention isn't up to you.

J. Rhodes [: 00:49:10

With so many factors in the industry that kind of keep a lot, a lot of times, political things, other things that'll keep you from that. But as long as you do your follow ups and keep making your heat, you know what I'm saying, that's all you can do.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:49:22

He said a lot of times it's not about your talent, but it's about the relationship. And I think that that gets missed a lot of times because us as creatives, a lot of times a lot of us creatives are introverted, right? So we may not be the best at building relationships or even maintaining maintain relationships. But when we talk about creative entrepreneurship, having the skill set of developing relationships and maintaining relationships is key. Networking, that's key because like you said, those create opportunities or those keep opportunities coming based off the relationship. So I don't want y'all to miss that. And listen, listen, it's a lot more than I, I want to ask, I know Shaw want to ask, but I know we gotta, we gotta wrap up because you have other things you gotta do with want to Hold.

ShySpeaks [: 00:50:14

Netflix and them, you know, got to go follow up with whoever.

J. Rhodes [: 00:50:18

Exactly.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:50:19

But I want to ask you, as we, you know, wrap up, what's, what's one thing that you would want to leave to the audience? So these are like aspiring entrepreneurs or they, they doing it, you know, creative entrepreneurs, they're doing it and they like, okay, how do I, I want to do past that threshold. I want to get that six, seven, eight figures. What's one thing that you say? Okay, if you focus on this, you well on your way.

J. Rhodes [: 00:50:43

I think enjoy where you are now. I think you literally, you always looking forward, but like if you're moving forward right now, you're living in, in a dream that you dreamt in the past. You know what I mean? And so you got to be happy with that because like right now, like the 10 year ago me would be like, oh bro, you doing it. You know what I'm saying? But right now I'm like, man, I got more to do. So don't always chase this. You'll go crazy, like chase it and get it, but just be happy with where you are because you got to have your mind and your heart, right. To do it at the level that you want to do it. And secondly, man, you learn as much as you can.

J. Rhodes [: 00:51:22

If you feel uncomfortable about a situation, educate yourself on it because that'll open up the floodgates for your talent.

ShySpeaks [: 00:51:30

Wow, Education. This is interesting to end on that. You were saying to enjoy where you are and you talked about education. The thing about minding my creative business podcast is it exists to help creative entrepreneurs develop strategies, develop structure and then self development at the core of it. It's really an education tool for creative entrepreneurs. And one thing that I want to just shout you out and I we didn't spend a lot of time talking about, but you've made it your business to educate along the way. Right? So these Beats Ain't Free is a book to educate other producers on how to know their work and make their passionate paycheck. You said there's a second book coming and then also you take some time to be a professor and to actually teach on the, the post secondary level.

ShySpeaks [: 00:52:17

I know you taught on the at an audio visual school before and now you're teaching at Berkeley. Right. And so I just want to shout you out for making sure that you're not just getting it for yourself. I got my six, I got my seven, I paid my team, I got my film. I'm about to go talk to whoever you're making sure you're passing this information along because I would love to see a world where creative entrepreneurs are given that respect that they really need, and they can only do that with education. So shout out to J. Rhodes, y'all.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:52:46

So on that note, we want to encourage you to join the Creative corner, right? So if you go to mmcb podcast.com you can be a part of our community and receive a newsletter on a regular basis to help you develop and grow and be a part of a community with other creatives. Right. That are going in the same direction that you are going. Okay. We also want to. What else? I'm drawing a blank.

ShySpeaks [: 00:53:15

I mean, yeah, we. Yeah, just thank. Just thanking them. We thanking Rose. But we want to thank you for being a part of the education piece. And usually we end the episode. I usually end it. That's why I join the bank Blank.

ShySpeaks [: 00:53:26

And I usually end it by asking them to do a mantra. But for the sake of time, I just want you to say this. All it takes is laser focus.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:53:34

Laser focus.

ShySpeaks [: 00:53:35

To mind my creative business.

Ron "iRonic" Lee Jr. [: 00:53:37

To mind my creative business. Ooh, bars.